| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 01:30 am 
Having conducted a couple dozen IPO's over the past couple of days, it appears that there are no longer free days to move shares without risk of losing them to investment funds.
On LU, shares have gone into funds as early as the 2nd day of the month and as late as the 27th.
There are no transactions at the end of the month at all.
Be warned CEO's. The loophole has been closed. |
| Kiteless | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 03:25 am
If that's true - no window to move shares exists anymore and it affects all worlds, then I quit. I have only just found out about them and how to do it, so just my luck it could be curtains.
The fun and enjoyment will have gone when I'm still struggling to make a decent monthly income, level up and further my SC education without the extra funding those IPO's would bring in.
Income and profit cuts, product quality bugs/issues, a deafening wall of silence from The Management and now this. Time to pack up and leave.
I thought the global economic crisis only affected real countries. It appears not...
Aside from closing my 3 countries and 1 enterprise, together with my account, my last act will be to compensate those CEO's who have recently invested in Kitonia - if that's possible. |
| quaxocal (Golden Rainbow) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 08:50 am
I will *immediately* test this out.
Q |
| Kiteless (Kebir Blue) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 05:53 pm
Anything to report yet, Q?
I have found an unnecessary expense each month that is damaging monthly income. Hopefully its removal will ease things by some degree.
This game can be infuriating at times... |
| Messiah (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 06:02 pm
It does appear investment funds are buying all month. Not only that, the demand is instant - as soon as the corporation is offered it automatically has 2-5m shares on demand.
The only way i can suggest getting around this is bidding the max price for the shares with a CEO.
(probably should not have said that as now investment funds will automatically do that too >.< ) |
| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 06:10 pm
Another possible workaround:
Do not offer production on the market. Drive up P/E ratio above 100. Manually sell enough retained product to show a profit for 1 month. If assets are above 80, which they should be with cash infusions and all that unsold product, IPO should be possible with P/E high enough to prevent Funds from buying.
I am experimenting with this next and will report how it goes. |
| Messiah (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 06:19 pm
tuco also suggested mass buying supplies to fake assets. |
| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 06:36 pm
Yes. But the 60 month cap limits the utility of that. I have found that when P/E ratios are high enough, the funds are not bidding on those shares and I may safely move them around. The key seems to be stopping sales of product and closely monitoring demand, only selling when my CEOs are the sole buyers and P/E is high.
Still a pain. It now takes days to change ownership and reprivatize, with some stock lost to Funds permanently, requiring closure of those corps to try again with new ones.
The recurring issue, here, is that W3C programs priority to its automated functions over player activity. A curious choice. It appears that they wish to play our countries for us while we just observe and pay the bills.  |
| Messiah (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 06:42 pm
Haha, i have a theory why (share wise) farmer.
When you set your CEO's portfolio targets to a certain level, you expect it to attempt to buy the max amount of shares available for a corporation in that month.
However, i have noticed that the quantity it will automatically bid on is always 4,000,000 less than the quantity the subject corporation offers automatically (to meet it;s portfolio target).
Suspiciously enough investment funds tend to buy in quantities around 4m.
Seems like they are determined to end players shutting out IV's in the IPO process. |
| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 06:49 pm
Spot on, Dub. Which is why we say "F@#* the PO-lice" and will find workarounds. ;)
But a good point. I am double checking that portfolio targets are set so as to prevent auto buying and selling. |
| Kiteless (Kebir Blue) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 06:57 pm
Excellent work, chaps  |
| quaxocal (Golden Rainbow) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 07:56 pm
Ahh, I didn't get to check last night. I will definitely try to check tonight, and if not, Monday or Tuesday for sure.
Make SURE you are doing your IPOing AFTER all processing is done. For GR/WG/FB, this means after about the 15th/16th of each month, and no later than the 29th or so.
Q |
| Slare | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 10:01 pm
Seems to me a possible workaround, is to IPO a tiny amount of shares, just to get you on the board. Then have your CEO's pre-order the entire amount they will need prior to offering additional shares.
I would hope that there is sort of FIFO order buffer in there, so that then you'd get order priority over IFs. |
| Tendo Ryu (Golden Rainbow) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 10:07 pm
I have just completed a successful IPO on GR with no intervention from Share Funds, check the processing times for your world and try again. I did also test this on LU, however im not 100% sure of processing dates there and as Q pointed out to me the month runs much faster making IPO's more difficult. |
| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 10:34 pm
This problem may be isolated to LU, but funds are definitely buying all month.
Using the above strategies has worked and I was able to keep funds from buying shares. |
| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 2, 2009 - 04:32 am
Well, trust W3C. 14 investment funds bought up shares with a P/E of 421. Cap used to be 90. I now assume this is a deliberate move to prevent players from changing ownership through the share market.
@Slare. Actually, the opposite is true. This game is programmed so that the player plays against the developers. Their automatic functions will always take priority over players. |
| Kiteless (Kebir Blue) | Monday, February 2, 2009 - 12:26 pm
So the door to profitable IPO's has been slammed shut?
If so, that means there is no longer a level playing field. New players will be disadvantaged both in level of profits and the ability to score well and reach nearer the top of the scoreboard, which of course can result in GC payments. That simply isn't fair!
I play this game with aspirations of one day being able to compete for GC payments. IMO, any game loses all credibility if the playing field isn't level for all players.
Please do NOT mistake this as a dig at players who have filled their boots in this way. Fair play to you if you have cashed in previously and now reap the benefits. I know I would if I could. I haven't tried it yet as I am not fully au fait with the procedure and criteria, and would rather not keep hounding others for the necessary information. I have tried to IPO a new CEO corp that I have in my country, but having waited 2 days to see if the option becomes available, I feel the chance has slipped by to even try with that particular one.
I looked at the profits that some countries are making on monthly income - some are comfortably making 50% profit, while I make around 10%. It's blatantly clear that with this particular change implemented by W3C, it's impossible for someone like me to compete with that level of profitability when I haven't fully IPO'd corps from state to CEO or a 51/49 split for country and CEO, nevermind the other trading tricks that are not in the public domain. Good profits mean high indexes, large armies and cash to spare. That potentially results in more chance of winning wars, extra GC's and possibly even a place on the Security Council if you reach the top. In other words, it's as good as a closed shop for the goodies. And of course, it also makes levelling up considerably easier and quicker.
If I want a slave nation, nevermind a few, I'll do well to break even or return a small profit each month.
These are the things that are pissing me off and that's why if IPO'ing without immediate intervention from IF's is now impossible, W3C can stick their game where the sun doesn't shine. |
| Treasurer (White Giant) | Monday, February 2, 2009 - 03:26 pm
Please allow me to interject here a bit...
OK,
Item 1. Just keep swiping that VISA.
Item 2. They want less profits for ALL players. (See item 1.)
Item 3. The GM's couldn't give a crap about any of you. (See Item 1.)
Item 4. They alone control the cash market. (See item 1.)
Item 5. They do not want players around very long to explain their misdeeds. (See item 1.)
Item 6. They will ignore you except for the two minutes it takes you to do (Item 1.) (See Item 1.)
Item 7. They will try to calm the panic with videos and maps in order for you to remember to...(See Item 1.)
Item 8. They will take away your assets mysteriously so that you have to...(See item 1.)
___________________________________________________________
I could go on, but probably get banned...
But I just don't love Wendy enough to do that.
T. |
| Asmodeus (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 2, 2009 - 07:06 pm
I've actually never knew of the loop hole, what I've done, is take a hit, and offer up the minimum shares, once the corp can go IPO.
Then, stop selling product. It's a lot easier with CEO's as there is no limit to the stored cash, but once you IPO - that cash'll go to the shareholders (with me holding the 90%+ it's a small loss, but hey)
Anyhow, once the P/E hits 999, there should be no problems of getting the shares to the right source, just keep watching the demand, once it hits zero, you're set to go.
On the other hand, I've not been around much recently, so haven't been publicizing. Also, I only go public with small amounts of corps at a time, and it takes a hell of a long time to do it. |
| Kiteless (Kebir Blue) | Monday, February 2, 2009 - 07:27 pm
What is the minimum number of shares?
My CEO corp that I built to test this kind of IPO is now ready to go. I don't mind a small hit at all if I can drive up the P/E, monitor a complete drop in demand and then take the rest without any further hits from IF's. |
| Asmodeus (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 2, 2009 - 07:33 pm
Minimum is what's given - 2M, the max is 15M (unless things changed).
Don't put buy orders for the shares, before you see the demand drop - otherwise you'll be seeing your own orders ;) |
| Kiteless | Monday, February 2, 2009 - 07:48 pm
I thought it was 2M, just wanted to check.
ATM, I just want to initiate the IPO process with a minimum offering, then keep products and watch demand fall. The time taken to complete the process is not a problem.
I'm not familiar with buying orders, but I'm sure it's both easy to find and a straightforward process. I will be looking to eventually buy a 47% shareholding with my president. If all goes well, I will do more of these.
Thanks for the tip |
| Aleksander (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, February 3, 2009 - 03:31 am
Here is what I have been doing.
1. I started another CEO.
2. I have my second CEO bid on my country's corp and allow the cash to build up.
3. I IPO the shares to my first CEO, retaining 24.98% of the shares. I will spread the remaining shares out later to get true publics.
4. When buying the shares, I place a limit order of market+$0.01. I have not lost any shares sense I began using this method.
Overall I have found that this streamlines the IPO process for me. Until I began this, I had not been able to consistently get IPO's completed. It does add a CEO, but I had intended that anyway. |
| quaxocal (Golden Rainbow) | Tuesday, February 3, 2009 - 04:29 am
You're going through too much work needlessly. You don't need the 2nd CEO to IPO.
Here in a few I will be doing a massive round of IPOing. I will let everyone know if IF's really are a problem or not. |
| Aleksander (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, February 3, 2009 - 04:48 am
Compared with buying supplies and timing cash infusions to hit the assets threshold, this is easy.
The country builds a corp, my CEO bids when the value is about $6B (subsidy to the CEO). I let cash build up about a week on LU (value about $30B) and the IPO is ready. A lot fewer mouse clicks and timing is not so important.
Also, my CEOs get great asset growth in this method. I also need the second CEO to hold shares for true publics.
The investment funds buying shares is a problem. |
| quaxocal (Golden Rainbow) | Wednesday, February 4, 2009 - 07:41 am
I did 30 IPO's earlier, between the 20th and 27th or so of the month. NO investment funds whatsoever got even one share of any of those 30 corporations.
30 IPO's, no investment funds.
I keep telling everyone, you CAN'T IPO during processing. I don't know the times for LU or KB, but here they are for GR/WG/FB:
4:00 PM to 6:40 PM EST
11:00 PM to 4:40 AM EST
9:00 AM to 11:40 AM EST
For the UK, add 5 hours. Central Europe, add 6 hours.
For PST, subtract 3, MST, subtract 2, CST, subtract 1.
I did my IPOing between 5:20 PM and 6:25 PM, for those wondering. I could have started as early as 4, and ended as late as 6:40 and still would have had no problems.
IPOing hasn't changed, just make sure you don't do it during processing times.
Q |
| Messiah (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, February 4, 2009 - 12:37 pm
It is all month on LU Q. That is what we are talking about. |
| coolwind (Golden Rainbow) | Wednesday, February 4, 2009 - 01:10 pm
yup, did some last night on GR with no problems |
| Aleksander (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, February 4, 2009 - 06:25 pm
My IPO's on LU in Aug 2372 didn't process at all. I started on the 21st of the month. |
| quaxocal (Golden Rainbow) | Wednesday, February 4, 2009 - 07:45 pm
On LU, same principle should apply. Start the next hour after processing is done, and hurry up to get it done before the next round begins. |
| FarmerBob | Thursday, February 5, 2009 - 03:06 pm
Quote:On LU, same principle should apply. Start the next hour after processing is done, and hurry up to get it done before the next round begins.
uhhh. The point of this thread is that LU is not processing the same, but glad to hear GR is still working. |
| quaxocal (Golden Rainbow) | Thursday, February 5, 2009 - 10:20 pm
Start after LU processing is done (when score updates). |
| Messiah (Fearless Blue) | Thursday, February 5, 2009 - 10:35 pm
quaxocal, are you just not reading what we are saying? The IV's ARE buying all month on LU, even after processing times. Christ. One born every minute :P |
| quaxocal (Golden Rainbow) | Friday, February 6, 2009 - 09:17 pm
My suggestion would be to try doing it after the late night update (whenever LU takes the longest to update, on GR that's from 11 pm to 5 am EST).
If its still confirmed that IV's are buying on LU even during that period, then something changed.
Also make sure these are fresh state (or private) corps which have not been IPOed before. |
| Keith Allaire (Little Upsilon) | Friday, February 6, 2009 - 09:42 pm
LU also 'skips' from about the 24th of the game month to the 1st or 2nd of the next game month around 3PM EST. I have found this a bit odd as well... |
| quaxocal (Golden Rainbow) | Saturday, February 7, 2009 - 05:59 am
Messiah, sorry, I have read what you and others are saying, I guess since its working on GR, I thought maybe there would be other issues causing problems on LU, rather than them actually making IF's buy all month there. Just wanted to make sure those other issues were double-checked first.
I will definitely let everyone know if the problem occurs on GR.
As for remedies, others have suggested some good ones, I have nothing more to offer there at this time but will see what else could work.
Q |
