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Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 09:30 pm  Alright, I know that this is going to piss off a lot of people, but I was thinking that after a war, once you've taken control of a country, and please please please don't get super pissed at me, just say what you think of the idea... anyway, I was thinking you might be able to, ahh, replace, the native population with your own. Again, please don't get pissed at me, just say what you think of the idea.
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| Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 10:53 pm lol wut? You mean like population transfers?
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| Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 11:12 pm Why? In order to avoid situations you are proposing SC is very generic/general in the sims culture/religion/ideology. In current SC system there is no need or even a function for the suggested "idea", and even if it was, it would be terrible at best.
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| Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 11:14 pm Also their is already a in-game population transfer system (intra-empire), feel free to move people from your main country to your slaves and role-play that in way you fancy (in private).
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 12:55 am boy you really pissed me off...uh so, tell me again what i'm supposed to be pissed off about?
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 01:06 am I wasn't exactly talking about a population transfer, I.... You know what, forget I ever said anything. People would just hate me for it.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 01:21 am Are you talking like wipe out the local population?
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Friday, April 22, 2011 - 01:30 am THERE is an interesting idea.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 03:29 am well Scarlet, now that really does piss me off.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 03:49 am i'm confused. what's the point?
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 04:17 am Maybe he meant to assimilate C3s borg-style.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 04:22 am Maybe the was thinking C3 Genoside
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 05:02 am i like the borg style theory!!!!!!
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 05:04 am Thank you for saying it yourself instead of making me say it. And for the record, I'm not actually sure if it's a good idea or not, in fact I think it would be pretty dumb to do that, but just as an option.... In fact, I felt kind of terrible putting that idea forth. So I'll just say it. Yes, I was thinking C3 genocide. Or, if it's a player country you take over, then that. Just putting it out there.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 05:08 am For the record, I do not in any way condone real-world genocide. I am not a skinhead, in fact, I have more tolerance than most people, since I am both an atheist, a vegan, and a self-described hippie. I'm just saying it might be interesting in the game.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 12:27 pm It might make for some interesting politics and cause a few more war declarations.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 03:50 pm I have more tolerance than most people because I am an atheist? Really? I think you should reconsider that statement. Your religious (or lack of religious) beliefs don't make you any more or less tolerant. There's nothing in the Bible or the Qur'an or anything that says "Do not tolerate people" - in fact, the opposite is true. And there's no "Atheist Contract" that prescribes tolerance. Sorry to pick you up on that one little statement, but it does kind of suggest that religious people are intolerant.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 03:52 pm Ignore him. He's here for your false amusement.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 07:50 pm Err... Accordian, read revelations of the bible. Not very tolerant of homosexuality is it? Muslim tolerance of the 'infidel', sexual equalty... Hundreds of other examples available on request.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 08:12 pm I mean that because a lot of people have been jackasses to me because I don't believe in "God". And besides, just because the bible doesn't say not to tolerate people, it doesn't mean that people just automatically accept things. Anyway, Please just focus on my idea.
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 09:16 pm BBJBS - you give a bad name to all us rednecks!
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 09:23 pm NO GOD NO HEAVEN NO HELL NOTHING when u dead u dead, u just rot 
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| Friday, April 22, 2011 - 10:32 pm "when u dead u dead, u just rot " In best of cases, pushing the daisy's, which is a good thing cause the world need more flowers.
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| Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 06:03 am Stupid idea BBJBS....you mean kinda like Hitler did by trying to remove the Jews and replace them with his "perfect" arian nation?? ....and thank you Jesus for dieing on a cross for my sins on this Good Friday....and for the hope you have given us through Your resurrection on this Easter Sunday. Now...lets see if that gets more negative comments than the BBJBS idea...genocide is more acceptable on this forum than Jesus.
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| Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 02:22 pm Am I missing the point here? I hate to disillusion anyone but, while we all think fondly of our little sim citizens, the bottom line is they are a bunch of 1s and 0s on a server somewhere in the Netherlands. We can imagine them to be of whatever skin colour or nationality we want. We can move the numbers around and imagine we are selling them into slavery, swapping 'natives' between two countries, forcing them abroad to help with other nations' disasters, killing them off by denying them medical treatment or leading them into a decimating war. But why would you want to swap a whole load of numbers that you image to be of a certain type, only to replace them with similar numbers that you imagine to be of a different type? Save yourself the trouble and use your imagination ... Hugs and respect Jo
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| Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 03:42 pm Imagine... There's no countries. It's easy if you try. Imagine... Replacing all those sims. They all have to die. - John Lenin of the United Beatles Socialist Republic
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| Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 05:20 pm @Jo. The illusion of power
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| Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 07:53 pm I agree it's definitely not a nice idea, but it is an idea, and I also agree that it would make politics a lot more intersting and war a lot more rampant. While interesting politics and more war is almost always fun, if these things could be acheived without genocide, then I would support that.
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| Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 08:12 pm You know, I thought that everybody would just outright hate that idea. I'm surprised that people seem open to it. @EC: for one thing, it's not real genocide. It's a tiny computer program. @Jo: Fuck religion. God doesn't exist. If you want proof, send me a message.
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| Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 10:45 pm First off, I think what EC is trying to say is that genocide in the mind or on a computer is still genocide. Even if you are killing 1's and 0's, you are still willing to kill for no apparently good reason accept to gain land for your own people, which rings to the tune of many of the genocides commited in the history of the world. Secondly, can we try not to be disrespectful of religion, of any kind? I'm a Christian personally but I don't approve of anyone making jokes or insulting anyone else's religion. So, Billy Bob, I don't agree with what you believe, but I refuse to insult and disrespect other people's legiitmate beliefs, and you should try to do the same. Thanks man.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 12:00 am Sorry General, I wasn't thinking. And are you saying that because I'm perfectly willing to kill off 11,000,000 parts of one giant computer program, that means that I would kill real people? There is a major difference between a real person and a computer program. Ever attacked another country in the game? You've killed, and in a way, that was a genocide. So if you've ever attacked another country, or destroyed a hospital, or not built more hospitals to increase health, then you have killed a virtual citizen. No matter what you do, there will be deaths. And what if there was a compromise: you commit an in game genocide, maybe you lose the ability to get security council aid. If you're already ineligible, maybe you become open to attacks from larger empires even if you have protection on. You commit a bunch, the security council could start a trade embargo. You see were I'm going with this.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 08:37 am 1. I almost forgot that this was not a game for some folk. 2. The option to kill off the population of a country could be useful since this is a game. However, there would only be a very limited usefulness of this kind of thing (denying population to a conqueror). 3. Personally, I think simlanguage groups would be cool - as in require a minimum percentage (maybe 20%) to speak the "empire language" to attack from countries or to join CMs or federations (basically requiring a lingua franca among the simfolk of groups of players). Homogenous empires could have decreases immigration and rebellions while diverse empires (maybe something like fully public corps, the dominant language only has less than 25% of the population) could have increased immigration and rebellions. The education index could determine the speed at which language demographics shift to the "empire language" and the "empire language" could be changed. However, this really has little to do with simocide . . .
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 09:10 am @Crafty...sigh. Firstly, the rules about homosexuals are from Leviticus, not Revelations - Revelations has nothing at all to do with what is right and wrong. Secondly, although some Christians may disagree, the laws that state that homosexuality is sinful are no longer relevant because of their context. The same passage that forbids homosexuality tells the Israelites to burn everything a menstruating woman touches. Why? Those two rules are *hygiene* laws for a primitive society. And regardless of whether or not homosexuality is sinful, God repeatedly instructs us to *love* (that is, to the point of being willing to die for) everyone. Just because some Christians are douches doesn't mean all are. No offense to you, Crafty, but please don't start such an argument with me. I've grown weary of these arguments over the years, this a forum for a game, and I don't want to start debating historical context and morality with you.
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Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 11:47 am
And just where did that come from, when Jo didn't even came close to mention religion? One's religious alignment does not automatically indicate how tolerant he is. The rest is nonsense.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 01:30 pm Accordian, my apologies for not knowing the correct book from whence that passage came, my bad entirely, I should have researched before I posted.
But please dont make it sound as if religious people (of any creed, but NO means am I singling out any one religion) are more tolerant than anyone else. The ethics and teachings of any relgion I know of are obviously for the good of all mankind, but unforunately they clash and seem to be the cause of most, if not all, man made pain and suffering throughout history. Including genocide. I respect your wish to not want to enter into debate here and dont wish to antagonise you further. Please - enjoy the game. CC
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Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 02:11 pm
Here's an idea that's thrown around a lot. I don't think people give it much thought when they say it, or when they hear it. It's actually an outrageous statement. You're smart and thoughtful, Crafty...care to back it up, or is it just throw-away rhetoric?
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 02:29 pm I hold these truths to be self-evident.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 02:39 pm Actually the discussion on homosexuality is in Romans chapter 1 verse 26 Dead horse beaten sufficiently...moving on Happy Easter by the way ;)
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 02:40 pm Religion is the root of most the worlds evil. The US poke their nose into other countries beliefs and the the way they run a country. World police my arse. Using religion for oil..poor excuse. Half of irans pop suddenly woke up one morning, all finding guns underneath their beds.... saying " seems like a nice day to take over the country" No. Who you think put the idea there and even the guns Coming from the god fearing christians you purport to be....Bollocks Where next? Korea?
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 02:41 pm @Crafty: Haha, rhetoric it is then. edit: Hey Blue, throwing it all out in a shock and awe effort I see. I'm surrounded by your posts and can't keep up... how about the first thing: "Religion is the root of most the worlds evil."...how so?
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 02:43 pm Persuasion is only needed by your own government so you believe the crap your fed ;)
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 03:08 pm Jojo... In my part of the world for example, Catholics and Protestants have fought to the death for hundreds of years, they still are, killing and destroying and causing grief in terrible amounts. Western governments would have us believe the 'crusades' in the middle east are over our moral (read religious) superiority. See Blues post. Talking of the crusades...11th to 13th centuries. Even slavery, probably the worst atrocity perpetrated by mankind, has some religious roots in that it was the belief of Christian superiority over the black mans ignorance and blasphemy. You will of course agree that it would take a doctoral thesis to scratch the surface of this subject, but my opinion is that a brief glimpse of history justifies my statement. And your "throw away" dismissal of my opinion is symptomatic of middle Americas indoctrinated attitude to others beliefs.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 03:55 pm Alright everybody, this is going in a very interesting direction, but instead of debating and quoting biblical rules against homosexuality, we could get back to the topic of, as scarlet so intelligently called it, simocide. I actually never thought about it as a possibility of preventing resources from falling into enemy hands. That would probably be the best use of simocide. And I gotta say, I thought that absolutely everyone would hate it. But some people seem to be kind of in favor of it. Although I doubt that even if every player in the game wanted it added in it wouldn't be. And for the record, I believe reading something about someone killing an abortionist, purely for the reason that he was doing his job. I dare you to call that tolerance, and if you can find a way to prove that it was, I'll turn off war protection and give you my country.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 04:13 pm BBJBS - WHO are you???? lol
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 04:37 pm Now who is changing the topic JoeBob? Onto abortion now? make up your mind
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 04:43 pm I would actually be in favour of simocide as a way to: 1) Reduce terrorist attacks in large empires. 2) Prevent resources like sims to fall into enemy hands by reducing the population all the way down to say, 10M. 3) Create demand for trains if they become a product.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:12 pm Wow. I hope I'm not reading into #3 what I think I am...
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:13 pm Okay, it looks as though I am going to have to flex the knowledge muscles. Fuck my life. Jojo: yes, I also find it humorous that that statement is bandied around so much without a shred of a clue as to why it's said. EC: No, the original commandment against homosexuality is Leviticus 26. Apologies, my friend. Blueserpent: Thank you for starting with an outrageous claim. Humorously enough, the US does not actually represent God on Earth. The funny thing is that the United States of America is a multicultural country that is far from dominated by Christianity, and that does not go to war for Christian reasons. There is no commandment to "police thy neighbour". Crafty: 1: The fighting of the Catholics and the Protestants amounts to politics and tradition and has no spiritual or Biblical basis. The Catholics fought the Protestants to keep control over the Church - for power, because, in that day and age, the Pope was more like a Mafia Don than a holy man. The Protestants fought back for religious freedom. They have been going at it ever since, and, much like the Serbs and the Croats, no one actually knows why they do it anymore. It's political - nothing more, nothing less. If anything, this fighting is just another confirmation that: "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." 2: Ah, the Crusades, the most often touted example of Christian immorality. The Crusades are *not* an example of a Godly or Christian action. In the Bible we are not commanded to fight or to kill others. We are told not to kill others. We are told to love our neighbour - which, by the way, means everyone (it's actually quite proto-hippy! :P) We are told to tolerate and respect others. Yes, we are told not to venerate other Gods, but that is the same as telling someone who has one wife not to go and sleep with another: it disrespects God. The point I am getting at here is that the Crusades were a sinful action by Christians. Humorously enough, atheist, agnostics, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims (need I go on) have all committed sinful actions. Remember: "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". That includes Christians. You can't say "Religion is bad" because religious people have fought in wars. But now, you are saying to yourself, "But Pope Urban II claimed that the Crusades were a holy war!" Yes, sirs, and I claim that I am hung like a horse to get the ladies. Why? Because went you want something - whether that something be lands, political power, subjugation of a massive threat from a foreign region, or women, you are willing to lie to convince people to help you get it. Pope Urban II lied - it was not a holy war, and the people that died in that Crusade did not die to fight "the Infidel". They died because the Pope needed to secure himself against the new Muslim threat. They died because the Pope was hungry for lands. They died because of ambition, not because of God. Any questions? 3: And this has to be the biggest fallacy of all. Jesus advocating slavery? What an insult this is to both God, the Church, and the millions of Christians (both black and white) who fought slavery in the name of God. Slavery occurred because of racism, not because of God. But I suppose you would have a point *if* even a single point in the Bible or the teachings of the Lord claimed that anyone was superior to anyone else. Humorously enough, yet again, there is not a single word in the Bible which calls Christians or white men or Martians superior over any other person. At the time of Jesus, the Jews thought themselves superior to the Gentiles. What did Jesus do? He welcomed Gentiles into his discipleship, he told stories of the glorious and holy things that Gentiles had done (cf. Good Samaritan parable) and, when he died, Gentiles were welcomed into his Church. Why? Because no where did God ever tell the Jews or the Christians that they were superior over anyone else. Let's take a look at that verse again: "For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." "ALL have sinned" "ALL" This one phrase is one of the most powerfully egalitarian statements in history. Whether you be black, white, or Martian, you have sinned, and thus, in the eyes of the Lord, we are all sinners, and equal in our sin, and equal to each other because we are sinners. The disgusting fallacy behind slavery was that "the black man" was a "savage", and that he was therefore an animal. Slavery's first roots were in pre-Roman times, and in the time of Jesus, it was a Roman practice. When the early Church was formed, thousands upon thousands of slaves flocked to the Church because of its powerful egalitarian message: in the eyes of the Lord, we are all equal, and we can all be born again and receive the love of Jesus. This message brought hope to thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of slaves throughout the Roman Empire because it was so radically different to what was being preached by everyone else at the time. And when the Afro-American people threw off the chains of racism during the early to mid-20th Century, what group was at the forefront of the movement, giving them hope? The Church - the black gospel Church (c.f. Martin Luther King, Jr.). And why did those men and women find so much hope in Jesus? The same reason that those Roman slaves found hope almost 2000 years before them. It's up there a few times if you can't remember it. Finally, if I may make one last, passing statement: the driving "moral principle" behind the British enslavement of native peoples was, in fact, the "scientific" belief that they were superior to the natives. That belief was one day melded with Darwinism to create Social Darwinism, the ideal that motivated Hitler to murder 6 million Jews in the Second World War, along with hundreds of thousands of gypsies, homosexuals, and the disabled. 4: Thank you for your time. Billy Bob Joe Bob Steve/EC: Let's not get onto abortion. To BBJBS: the killing of an abortionist, regardless of whether or not abortion is immoral, is a great sin. It violates the spiritual laws that forbid both the judgement of others ("Judge not lest ye be judged", as people like to quote), and the commandment not to kill. Oh, and the commandment to love one's neighbour. Oh crap - it also violates the commandment not to idolise, because you are idolising yourself over God by telling yourself that you must enact God's will. Oh, and that violates the commandment against having another God alongside Jesus - because to idolise yourself is to lift yourself above God. I guess you could say that one who kills an abortionist is acting in an extremely un-Christian manner. Now, can we *please* move on? I really don't want to enter a massive theological discussion here.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:15 pm Oh, and Happy Easter to you too, EC. May I add that I hold no grudge against anyone here for their statements - if I come across as irritated or angry, it's because I've been having debates like these for years, and I'm weary of them.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:21 pm @BBJBS-For one, why would you want to execute a genocide when ethnicity, race, religious and national identity has no function in the game whatsoever? Fantastical fulfillment perhaps?
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:26 pm Actually, Jason, you could feasibly commit a genocide on... - The unemployed; boost your Welfare! - Housewives; - The disabled (the special clinics people, anyways);
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:29 pm God is intolerant. He is intolerant to all sin. And He has appointed a day in which He will judge that intolerance. The thing that amazes me is that so called Christians take that intolerance upon themselves and execute God's judgment for Him, ignorant of the fact that they too were once sinners appointed for the day of destruction. But God who is rich in mercy has delayed His just filled judgment to allow those who would hear His voice and obey it and turn from the things that defile man. A duty in which the true Christian perform. Christians are supposed to shine light on the mercy and grace of God and warn them of that appointed day in which God will judge the hearts of all men, not take it upon themselves to execute judgment, such has been the case throughout history. Folks, do not be deceived, everyone who names the name of Christ is not His.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:30 pm You could but what would happen if you wanted to build more corps? No labor reserve.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:31 pm That house wife...could be yours? That disabled person could very well be your son or daughter...then what?
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 05:57 pm +25 Respect Points, Jason :P And lol @ "that house wife...could be yours"
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 06:34 pm And respect to you accordian for a well put argument. As you are stating, I agree that these actions were taken through ignorance or for political or personal gain. They were however committed under the guise of religion, the justification is/was freedom for the perpetrator to impose their ideals upon others of different beliefs. Please dont tell me you dont believe that to be true of the present world conflicts. Religion/sect whatever fighting each other, basically for control of the last of the oil, all under the flag of 'liberating' others from oppression and religious extremists. Not much has changed since JC was crucified has it?
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 06:39 pm I think the UK HAS declared genocide on the dis-abled and unemployed. They are at the front line of the austerity cuts. 
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 06:56 pm I'm not the most politically minded person here, but it seems to me that all we, as the United States, has gained from the Middle East conflicts is debt....and lots of it...trillions. If we are going to rape and pillage these countries of their oil as everyone says, I wish we would do it soon...I can't afford these gas prices much longer. ;)
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 06:59 pm Crafty-- I think that most wars and other violence are fought for what we'd call economic reasons, not religious ones. One group wants what another has, or is defending their own against others, or wants to dominate trade in some region. A common religion binds a people together, and it's natural for people to use religious rhetoric to rally themselves and make the opposition seem immoral and reduce our inhibitions against fighting them. That doesn't mean that religion is the cause, just a rationalization. Persians vs Greeks. Alexander the Great's wars of conquest. Romans vs Carthaginians. Roman conquests. All the wars fought by the ancient Chinese. Rome vs Germanic tribes. Huns vs Romans. Viking raids. England vs the Normans. Mongol conquests. England vs Spain. England vs France. A sampling of wars fought over no particular religious principles. Look at wars in the 20th century. How many of these wars were fought because of religion? Relatively few. Massacres, forced starvations and deprivations, by totalitarian governments, killing millions...how many for religious reasons? Relatively few, and most of those to persecute and eliminate religions, as opposed to based on religious teachings as you said. War in Iraq...based on religion? Not oil? Not for American hegemony? Not for security concerns? Not for military strategic concerns? Not for internal political reasons in the Western nations? Not to give democracy a foothold in the Middle East? But for religion? Clashes of religions can make wars and other conflicts more vicious. So can clashes of political ideologies. I think the latter has tremendously more documentation of actually being a root cause of wars and other misery, apart from economics, than religion.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 07:19 pm /vomits
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 07:21 pm What About Simocide on just the male folk and not the women folk. That way you would'nt cut off population growth in the way of breeding. Also Revelation is singular, no "s" at the end. Religion talks always end up with someone getting their skivies in a knot.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 07:23 pm Ok, I'll concede to being intellectually out-gunned by you two. I definitely see and agree with what you are saying Jojo, and I think my only defence can be, to quote you:
This is an very interesting discussion for me, but we have a saying in England - "Never talk politics or religion in a pub", and I think that sound piece of advice should be extended to forums too. Happy Easter to you both.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 07:24 pm Oh, and sorry about hi-jacking (no pun intended) your thread billy-bob.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 10:33 pm no problem crafty, also, please stop responding to religous posts that dont have anything the do with the idea of Simocide. That's the main point of this thread, not religion or God or the United States' fucked up foreign policy.
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| Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 11:55 pm If you keep offering your unsolicited opinion on religion or foreign policy, people are going to respond. For example: It is a point of debate whether US foreign policy is indeed screwed up . . . not a foregone conclusion. It is a point of debate whether religion (or lack thereof) breeds intolerance or tolerance . . . not a forgone conclusion. If you'd like to discuss something, it is best not to have opinions on unrelated matters for the course of the discussion.
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| Monday, April 25, 2011 - 12:19 am excellent point, just trying to say we should stick to topic of Simocide.
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| Monday, April 25, 2011 - 01:03 am Religion would have a profound effect on a President's decision to commit genocide. I don't see how the conversation doesn't end up becoming politics or religion or some screwed up variant of both.
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| Monday, April 25, 2011 - 03:05 am politics, yes, but religion, no. only if you were one of the most hardcore christians, like ned flanders on the simpsons. lets face it, they DO NOT EXIST. its not even like the matrix, were everyone is a computer program but killing the program kills a real person. everyone of those "people" are just a handfull of ones and zeroes. It's like bringing religion into throwing a piece of wood into a fire.
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| Monday, April 25, 2011 - 05:06 am WOOD HAS A SOUL TOO! Just kidding. Also, Team Jojo/Matt/EC! Thank God that ended quickly. In regards to Sim-Genocide, I think it's a little bit of an iffy issue to allow genocide in a game. Even if you *are* only killing bits and bytes of code, allowing it is almost like condoning it, and that's certainly not a good thing. Remember that SC has a policy against "Nazi materials". If you can't call your President Hitler or your Empire "Third Reich", I don't think the GM is going to allow you to commit the same kind of act as Hitler.
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| Monday, April 25, 2011 - 05:27 pm Forgot about the no-Nazi stuff. You're probably right, although Hitler was killing because of religion and ethnicity. Since there isn't really any of that in SimCountry, they might be a slim chance of the allowing Simocide.
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| Monday, April 25, 2011 - 05:50 pm Billy Bob, (Lorelei yawns)..... let's talk about shoes instead. Now that is an exciting topic! :-)
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| Monday, April 25, 2011 - 08:55 pm The GMs don't allow Nazi images or names in SC because the company, and the server, are located in the Netherlands and it is illegal there to represent them. Therefore, if Nazi references were held on their server, they would be in contravention of the law. If they were that worried about the concept of genocide, they wouldn't allow any names relating to war criminals or genocidal regimes, not just Nazis, and they probably wouldn't allow nukes. Hugs and respect Jo
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| Monday, April 25, 2011 - 11:55 pm I'm going to assume that was a joke Lorelei. Jo, genocide wasn't invented by the Nazi's. There are genocides now, there were other genocides besides the Nazi one in WW2 (Soviets created a famine in Ukraine), and there were tons of genocides before the Nazi's. Hitler actually got the idea of eugenics from American treatment towards the Native Americans. Yes, the Holocaust is the most famous and well known example of genocide, but is definitely not the first, last, or only one.
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 12:47 am BB, you seem to have a problem with hearing what people are saying ... For some reason you seemed to think, earlier in this debate, that I have some sort of religious affiliation, despite the fact that I hadn't posted anything about my own views. Now you seem to think that I need to be told that the Nazis are not the only ones who have committed genocide through the ages. Neither could be further from the truth. I am perfectly well aware of war crimes that have taken place both before and after those committed by Nazi Germany and, if you read my post carefully, you will realise that I said nothing at all about my personal views. I merely gave you some information about why the GMs might have banned Nazi images. In fact, I pointed out specifically that there have been other war criminals and genocidal regimes besides the Nazis. You have started an interesting debate, but discussion is pointless if you don't listen. Hugs and respect Jo
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 02:09 am Actually, I was serious. :S
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 02:41 am @lorelei...shoes are a very important topic especially for women. Are you a high heel type of gal?
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 03:04 am Sorry, misunderstood. Also, please stop talking about shoes. What we're talking about is Simocide.
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 03:28 am I wanna talk about shoes.
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 04:40 am THIS IS NOT ABOUT SHOES! THIS IS ABOUT MERCILLESLY SLAUGHTERING MILLIONS OF SIMS!
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 05:20 am Billy bob I hate to be the guy to say it but no one is going to take you seriously on the grounds your trying to make an idea for an idea that's ALREADY in place. I love the the fact you have these ideas but your suggesting an idea thats already in use. If you want simocide. Use nukes ( they are used for killing by the 100's of thousands or millions ), destroy ALL civilian targets, Destroy all forts killing more military. Your trying to be serious on a topic thats already being used. You really cant expect us to be serious. Not trying to be mean just trying to help ya out. Best you ask people in the chat for help or ideas. CorperatePartner, Scarlet, Myself, and a few others are always in there exchanging ideas. Stop in who knows you might not suggest an idea but you might learn how to fix an issue... LIKE THE WAR LEVELS!!!
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 05:38 am Thanks for pointing that out, Jo, I actually wasn't aware that Nazi materials were banned in the Netherlands. But I suppose we could take the same point that I made and just remove the references to Hitler - maybe Simocide should not be allowed because it would reflect badly on the game as a whole, because Presidents in the game would be able to be like Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 05:50 am This is Going to sound terrible but.... I want everybody and there mother to attack TRoS2.........I just found this game and I think it will help[ my learning curve! ]
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 06:29 am And now I feel bad i followed that.
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 08:32 am Well ignoring what happens when a high population country gets abandoned..... I don't see a purpose to having genocide in the game. In regards to all the Nazi references, I do feel that it's relevant that any genocide plans in SC rouse feelings of Nazi-ism. The ability to preform genocides could very well rouse such ideas in players and make the community less friendly. Along with bad PR, it could cause economic meltdown in the country. Also the benefits of resetting the population doesn't seem to make much sense because it would probably end up the same way anyways as the population grows. As its been mentioned before, if you want to wipe out a country's population, there is always nukes.
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 03:54 pm BBJBS - SHOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CHANGED DA TOPIC TO SHOES!!!!!! So there! Deal wif it!
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 05:36 pm Shoes, Oh my God, Shoes. Shoes, Oh my God, Shoes.
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 07:02 pm I LOVE SHOES!!! mostly combat boots you can never have to many of them
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 07:36 pm You people look too far back in time or are purely infatuated with Hitler. When I think of genocide, I think of the many African nations in our present history that are now and in the very recent past become the modern picture of genocide. The problem here is, this is a game. Then some of you try and go get all serious, about a make believe game. I'm a second generation American. My Mum is English and French, My Father is the result of of a Russian\Jewish and Spanish descent. I don't find Hitler offensive at all, when speaking about history. I find his actions deplorable, but the way this is taken out of context when applied to everything else in the world more than 60 years later is pathetic. Get over it. On the ground of it being 'the law' to exclude certain material from being posted to the server, I get that. But in a make believe game if people want to play the part of Hitler in a SIMULATION! it become ridiculous to begin persecuting players for using their imagination and the like. This is a game, if you can find ANY REAL Nazi materials in this game(which you won't by the way) then swing the hammer. But someone pretending... comon, grow up already. Hitler, was not unlike any other historical tyrant, but that is who we are obsessed with. For example, Hitler committed Genocide against the Jews. But didn't the Israelite army throughout the entire old testament commit genocide on the command of Yahweh in order to settle the promised land? Hell, they were even commanded to kill the children and animals too. The one group they failed to kill off and instead made a peace treaty with Yahweh made a thorn in their side throughout history. So I mean, you could say what goes around comes around. But be careful how you look at things, the victim here was once the assailant. Case Closed, and I'm Jewish descent so blo me. Just shut up and enjoy the freaking game.
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 09:23 pm Accordian_This....... my sentiments, EXACTLY.
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| Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 11:37 pm @super: the problem with that is that (as far as I know) you can't nuke yourself if you want, and only members have access to nukes anyway, plus theres the radiation problem. @ Accordion: just because it brings images of the Holocaust to mind, doesn't mean that it's actually Nazi stuff. And maybe they could make it specific to players in countries without those laws. 11,645 players are in the U.S. If you take ALL the other players from ALL the other countries, then they would probably equal at most a fifth of the American players. @Psycho: we know that it's a game, we're talking about something that could possibly be added. I'm surprised I'm the first to think of it. And the reason we're referencing Hitler so much is because not only is the Holocaust the most well known one, it's the only genocide that helped start a world war. And to everyone talking about shoes: STOP FUCKING TALKING ABOUT FUCKING SHOES! NO ONE CARES ABOUT FUCKING SHOES! IF YOU CARE THAT FUCKING MUCH ABOUT FUCKING SHOES, THEN START ANOTHER FUCKING CONVERSATION, UNLESS YOU CAN THINK OF A WAY TO USE SHOES FOR SIMOCIDE!
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 12:16 am It's not a great idea. The only reason it is getting any attention is because it's genocide. If it were anything else like merging countries, you'd see three posts saying it isn't going to happen with one post saying it should. Somebody would give a detailed explanation one way or the other which would be ignored and the thread were be over. The idea is bad in any case. Killing simfolk is largely pointless and the only reason for adding it is weak (deny population to conqueror) since this greatly reduces incentives to war - of which there are very few already. Also, law is based on server location I believe.
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 12:40 am I agree scarlet and its fun to watch him get all pissed over shoes But honestly billy no bodys cares about this topic. Its been discussed any further talk with just make you look bad. Genocide = pointless Reasons for warring Settling a grudge Taking Cash Taking Pop Taking Military assests. Population = Cash .... Cash = Population Pop is a reason for war. What your suggesting is really just a stupid idea there is no point. What would it a accomplish? "The problem with that is that (as far as I know) you can't nuke yourself if you want." If killing your own pop is why you genocide. Then you shouldn't be playing SC. I give you a month Before you leave SC. In reference why dont u sell 1M of your pop and PRETEND its genocide ill take the bodies
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Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 01:23 am
Lmao, Okay Back to Shoes! If a shoe smells enough we could use it to fill the gas chambers... Hitler Style Happy now Double-Bob. And I know you're being light-spirited with the swearing, but you are begging for the hammer. It was way funny though. Hail The Newb World Order!
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 01:27 am Do shoes have souls?
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 01:33 am nasty shoe shop
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 02:13 am No shoes do not have souls. And I am NOT leaving SimCountry. And besides, if you're genociding to prevent an enemy from getting the whole pop, then it suddenly gains a point. Enough about f**king shoes. Although I thought the idea about taking the smell to fill a gas chamber was funny.
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 02:31 am The arch fiend Billy Bob wants to destroy the souls of millions of shoes.
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 03:18 am Then BBJBS MUST die in Sim. The mere thought of destroying the souls of shoes is incomprehensible to me! I'm having heart palps over here!!!! Just for that last statement by you, Billy Boy...... Imma going right now and buy some new shoes! (scowls) I might even post the pics for ya!!! I'm still hoping Blueserpent will get me those awesome pink boots from the other day!!!!! Hint hint. ha ha ha ha
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 04:14 am Rallys to have Bill bob Jow Bob Steve banned for the reason he doesnt like the shoe convo all in favor say I I
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 05:08 am nay, let him speak his mind
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 06:05 am Aye. Hush Keto! Are you agreeing that the poor souls of shoes should be destroyed????? I vote YOU in on da ban hammer too! lol :-P
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 09:53 am ORDER ORDER I AM DA JUDGE!!! LET MY PEOPLE EAT CAKE...Cheesecake FOR ALL
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 02:52 pm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm cheesecake and shoes. my two favorite things!!
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 10:20 pm cheesecake is good. to all of you who are hijacking my conversation with shoe BS: I hate you all. Also, I think that all this talk of shoes has killed the thread. If anyone still wants to debate the pros, the cons and the likelihood of Simocide being entered into the game, speak now or forever hold your peace.
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 10:59 pm your topic is dead dude ITS ALL ABOUT SHOES AND CHEESECAKE NOW. You know on the topic of shoes i love my converse shoes like the look
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 11:25 pm I always enjoy the kind you have to order through the mail for 30 bucks. The flavor is rich and better quality than Supermarket Cheesecake. Wally-World has a nice looking Variety CheeseCake Platter, but you get what you pay for. 9 Bucks...you get the picture. They need to purchase some quality upgrades.
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| Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 11:30 pm The cheesecake factory makes the BEST CHEESECAKE .... OMG
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| Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 01:17 am CheeseCake Factory is pricey, but yes, The BEST.
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| Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 04:23 am Last cheesecake I ate was pretty good. $5 though at a factory outlet. Not sure how much it would cost at the supermarket.
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| Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 05:23 am I guess this means that BBJB hates me. :-( I just dunno if I can go on............. woe is me! I love the Cheesecake Factory.... the Bang Bang Chicken yum yum wif da chocolate raspberry truffle cheesecake..... oh my!
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| Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 07:59 am think if you was the general mananger of the cheesecake factory and got all the free cheesecake u wanted.....WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 03:20 pm Eli's at your local grocers is pretty good cheesecake.
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| Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 10:32 pm To everyone who actually contributed something to the topic of Simocide, thank you. To everyone who helped with the hijacking, I hate you. I hope that you burn in hell for the rest of time.
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| Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 11:21 pm Lol
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| Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 11:52 pm Bwaahhahahaaahahahaa
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| Friday, April 29, 2011 - 03:21 am Again, go die in a f***ing hole.
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| Friday, April 29, 2011 - 04:41 am therapy springs to mind...go get some
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| Friday, April 29, 2011 - 06:03 am any one remember aesop?
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| Friday, April 29, 2011 - 06:44 am He wrote fables didn't he?
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| Friday, April 29, 2011 - 09:24 am They should make a mall just for shoes.
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| Saturday, April 30, 2011 - 03:18 am Laguna, I knew you were brilliant!!!
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| Saturday, April 30, 2011 - 08:27 pm Blue, I already have some.
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| Sunday, May 1, 2011 - 12:38 am BBJBS - it ain't working lol When you go to your next session, ask the therapist why you have an aversion to shoes. ha ha ha ha
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| Sunday, May 1, 2011 - 10:37 am Every last one of you can go hang yourselves.
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| Sunday, May 1, 2011 - 09:14 pm Bu..bu...but, BBJBS, who would you expose your inane nonsense to then??? You love us. You know it. And, I bet deep down, you like shoes. You are just in denial!
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| Monday, May 2, 2011 - 04:06 am The only thing I like about shoes is that they keep my feet relatively warm and dry when I walk to school after it's snowed. I hate you. If I was better at the war part of this game I would take control of every country you have. F*** you.
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| Monday, May 2, 2011 - 07:51 am ha ha ha ha ha well bring it, BBJBS. lol I could beat you in a fight by just throwing my shoes at you. ha ha ha ha
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| Monday, May 2, 2011 - 03:21 pm lol. don't underestimate the power of Stilettos
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| Monday, May 2, 2011 - 07:39 pm I've learned 2 things don't mess with shoes or her purses... Or ull be killed and buried in the valley somewhere where no one will find u
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| Monday, May 2, 2011 - 11:59 pm Oh yeah, those stilettos will do a number on your back.
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| Wednesday, May 4, 2011 - 03:56 am And to what experiences do we attribute this to, Laguna??? lol
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| Monday, May 7, 2012 - 06:36 pm I haven't read the entire thread yet - it's rather large - and in my view - mainly off topic. Instead of arguing morality, I'd like to see what game effects are being proposed. If allowing someone to kill off the population of a country gets introduced into the game - what is going to happen to population exchanges, and the price of buying population from the game master or other players? This could make it more difficult for other players - especially us new guys. On the other hand, what would be the benefit of a player doing so? Besides a 'scorched earth' policy when abandoning the country? Or is it just a work around of the population exchange? You have too many low level workers - kill all the ones in slave country b - then move your suplus from main country 'a'in?
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| Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - 01:44 pm I think the original post was about playing a "genocide" scenario, but no one wanted to be seen as a closet Nazi (or Serb, or communist, or Hutu, for that matter). Economically, it wouldn't make sense, and you could always get the vicarious thrill of imagining of the population that you sell as going to some gruesome fate.
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| Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - 08:29 pm The scorched earth portion of it makes sense militarily - take over a country, decimate the population, and move out. Without population, there is going to be a dearth of W3C companies for a long time in that country. As well as very few reinforcements for the armies of others. Repeated often enough, it's going to strangle the world economy - except of course for those that are already prepared for it (ie. the ones decimating all the native sims) - most of the economic advice I've seen seems to rely on computer controlled companies making all the low profit products, like in the agricultural section - if you remove that prop there's going to be a lot of devastation. And those that do have control of corporations supplying needed commodities would make a fortune. On the moral angle - I fail to see the difference, except in magnitude, between marching people in front of a firing squad, and carpet bombing a population center devoid of armed forces, or destroying corporations that have no direct link to the same. The game already encourages, if not mandates, the latter two. It's not a big stretch to allow the former. It could also open up more scope for the Security Council, and allow others to participate in the same. - passing resolutions condemning crimes against simanity - and the use of boycotts, and even Security Council troops drawn from members of that august body (not just the ruling council.) Indeed, the stigma of being seen as a closet Nazi, Serb, Communist, Hutu, or American could be repellent to some players.
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| Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - 09:22 pm I'm not sure what's meant by a "closet... American." No American I know (and I am one) is hiding in the closet because they're ashamed of their nationality. I'll take it a step further; most Americans (including myself) don't give a dam* what other nationalities think of us. I don't think it is in the best interest of the game for us to start slinging negative opinions or stereotypes of different nationalities around at each other. It serves no (good) purpose. If I am over-reacting, I apologize in advance.
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| Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - 09:40 pm Christopher Micheal is correct in his assertion. There are no closet Americans. I don't believe he is over-reacting... but I'm not a diplomatic character. We just play to win. Nub countries wouldn't understand.
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| Wednesday, May 9, 2012 - 10:04 pm If I were American, I certainly would want to hide it. Lulz
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| Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:19 am Oh Crafty ;-).......got to love the Brits! They're great!! Even Crafty. Thanks for the back-up Scarlet.
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| Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:37 pm +1, Christopher. No closet Americans. and I was not trying to seem to be slinging mud, just saying what previous posts were tiptoe-ing around without coming out and saying it. No offense intended. I dig your avatar, btw.
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| Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 04:16 pm We're good Maclean! And thanks for the avatar compliment. It's the old Gadsden Flag (you probably know the history of it). I'm not a fan of the present group that picked it up as their symbol however.
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| Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 07:43 pm Simply lumping together all the Genocidal regimes Christopher. No offense was intended to Americans, Hutus, Nazis, or Serbs. What I was trying to infer there is that most American's don't believe their country has committed crimes enough to be placed in the august company of the others. (as I'm sure the groups mentioned there would feel as well]. I do, but think it's irrelevant. Not due to the American "change of course" the government trumpets every few years - but because we have, in the words of Hunter S. Thompson, "all the money we need to buy guns, and no qualms about killing anyone else in the world that makes us uncomfortable." Touching upon the reference to having the Security Council becoming more active if the topic under discussion was implemented, I don't think having a single country in the game recuse itself from part of the process would be in the best interests of the rest of us. If anyone one single country can over-ride the security council at whim, it brings us all down.
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| Friday, May 11, 2012 - 12:10 pm why the hell would you want to kill of the natives? that's just lunatic. isn't the purpose is to increase the population of your empire? trying to create a pure bred? then let's put in dieseases into the game, see what that will do? really, you need a varieties of people to enhance your empire. i don't see your logic on killing the population.
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| Friday, May 11, 2012 - 08:01 pm The logic is killing off the population in computer controlled countries, to make your own population more valuable. The logic is in destroying all the needed workers for computer controlled companies, thereby limiting their production, making your own companies products' more valuable. The logic is in denying other players a possible source of reinforcements for their armies. The logic is in denying other players a labor source, thereby making your own more valuable. And I believe the topic under discussion was limited to genocide of computer controlled countries only. However, no reason not to extend that to another player's country. The former would be easier, as another player might not like what you are doing to his poor people. And players, unlike the computer, have the capacity to not only hit back, but to bring friends with them when they do. Point taken on needing a variety of people to enhance your empire. I'm short of at least 1 category of them. But we're not discussing the variety needed, but their source. Increasing your population in relative value vice total. Which is more valuable? I think it depends on the circumstance.
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| Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 02:27 pm Now if we can get past the morality issues, if any of the logical outcomes of the idea are worthwhile, can we think of ways to implement them?
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| Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 09:41 am @richard, sounds interesting. what's stopping the GM to repopulated the destroyed C3? is there a rule that countries that are destroyed cannot be raised again? i on the other side, would like to create an empire of at least a 1 billion soldiers, and to be able to create any weapons and ammo from my own empire. if anyone wants to declare war on me at that stage, i'll wipe them off the planet and every world they have countries/empires on (of course if the GM allows that ). i'm peaceful, if everyone be nice. i want to make sure the people of my empire survive, and wars are for killings and destroying.
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| Monday, May 21, 2012 - 06:55 am I agree with Psycho Honey ITS A GAME PEOPLE GET A GRIP! But Billy bob does need a psycho hospital stay though and game or o game there are to many people in the Real World like him i think we should hunt them and make the world a little safer
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| Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:44 pm Xyooj, The GM does repopulate the C3 - but eradicating population is going to affect the sale of GC's and the buying/selling of population. I'm going to try and explore the idea of sitzkrieg when needed, and find a willing partner. Bit expensive, but should let me fine tune what I can't with catch and release - and avoid the negative migration factors associated with growing sheer population numbers.
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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 05:33 am
Why are you so interested in finding practical justifications for committing genocide?
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| Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 04:22 pm Jojo, you missed the entire point. Toss the word genocide in, and people all of a sudden get preachy - despite the fact that most nations have practiced it at some time in their history. The United States, Russia, Britain, Germany, China, Turkey, the list goes on and on... I'm advocating getting rid of portions of your population. Whether by eradication, emigrant worker visas in addition to population transfer, or having a friendly war with a ally.
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| Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 01:57 am No, I'm not missing the point. A) The topic of the thread is sim-genocide. B) You revived the topic. C) In every post you propose new ways in which wiping out populations...other players', c3s', now your own...would have possible practical game justification. D) Half of your ideas you could carry out now, but there's no game benefit in doing so. E) The other half would require rule changes that would take away some of the challenge and strategy of the game. F) You have been getting very preachy yourself about blaming various countries for committing genocide. G) You're a moron. H) It will be highly enjoyable for me to see how preachy you get when someone decs on you and eliminates some of your population.
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| Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 04:20 am AMERICA!!! FUCK YAH!!!
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| Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 07:09 am A) What? I can't hi-jack this thread with my own views? Shocking. B) That's as far as I got before I ran into self-serving drivel.
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| Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 07:44 am Despite the name - SimCountry is clearly a GAME more than a simulation. What in the real world would matches war levels? What military has separate units for offense and defense (and would NEVER let an offensive unit shoot at another nation's offensive unit)? And who in the (real) world has 'war protection'? So for simocide to make it into this game, it has to be for a fun, "game" reason. And it will have to overcome the fairly strong political correctness type of headwinds that would frown on such a topic. I don't see it happening, unless it is in a purposefully lighthearted and comical manner. If it is too 'real' it would be too much of a downer to get approved. Thus, I could see simocide only as a game means of achieving a lighthearted goal. And what better goal, than harvesting a huge array of slightly worn shoes to reward the faithful followers of the fearless leader? Obviously weaker nations should be eradicated, so the stronger nations can have more shoes. It is the rule of the jungle, that is it would be if animals were advanced enough to have footwear. John Gilbert The United Kingdom of Misoto
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| Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 04:56 pm Sir, I must point out that you have failed to acknowledge the issue of horses wearing shoes.
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| Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 10:59 pm And I don't trust those chimps. They're already using tools.....
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| Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 11:21 pm Yes, the fierce jungle horse - I did gloss over that one. If the chimps ever learn to make stirrups and harnesses, we may find ourselves at a tipping point that we never recover from!
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