Attn: GM - Possible War Maps Error? (Little Upsilon)

I have played two player vs. player wars where I have allowed my enemy to paint my territories. When countering, my special forces and land units have failed to liberate any painted areas of the map. I have sent my special forces and land units back in forth across the maps several times in each case, but they do not regain territory or (un)paint.

Is this an error or unexpected result or did I miss some game news?

Currently the active war you can look at is for reference is "Simplistic" Vs. "Raid Center" on Little Upsilon.

This was noticed on White Giant as well.

In the same war I referenced. My fleets have failed to repair for 3 consecutive game months.

Is this perhaps another error that has not been reported yet. This has happened to me several different times over the course of my game play in the last few years.

I hope this is an isolated issue that will work itself out. If not now you GMs know.

I can't say for sure, Wendy, but I have a feeling that areas are only un-painted when your troops destroy one of the enemy's Special Forces (or other unit) occupying the area. Thus, if one SF unit has painted 4 areas, you can only un-paint one of them by destroying it and the other three remain painted. If you don't destroy it, you don't get to un-paint anything.

Can anyone confirm this?

Hugs and respect

Jo

Yeah maybe that is "supposed" top be the way it works but I destroyed all the special forces that painted the map. Then "attempted" to repaint.

Then, if I'm right, there were no SF left and so un-painting wouldn't work any more. Did you un-paint one sector each time you destroyed an SF unit?

I know from experience that marching your own troops across a painted area doesn't do anything ...

Hugs and respect

Jo

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

In the same war I referenced. My fleets have failed to repair for 3 consecutive game months.

Is this perhaps another error that has not been reported yet. This has happened to me several different times over the course of my game play in the last few years.

I hope this is an isolated issue that will work itself out. If not now you GMs know.<!-/Quote-!>

I can now report that my fleets have not repaired in the last 7 game months. No action on my opponent, me fleets just won't repair.

Given how the game is designed as far as the war engine is concerned these kinds of inconsistencies or errors are unacceptable.

If players are to expect honest wagers of war, the bugs need to disappear. If they don't it is hard for me to want to consider placing real assets "on the line" or risking their loss in any event.

Just some food for thought for the critics of my controversial methods of waging war.

Jo, I have fought possibly hundreds of token wars. In my experience, Special forces do unpaint. I am not assuming, this is fact. I had fought a 6 hours c3 war with Homerdome some time ago, where we did just this back and forth. It was a shining moment for him. He overcame, it just took a while. We took turns painting and unpainting the map. With each update time and less paint my war index replenished.

I really appreciate your attention to this matter Jo but I would really like to hear from the gms and not be the cause of confusion to other members who may read.

For example, if you were right about the population issue, your advice(which I have considered to be the solution) to reduce my health index, directly contradicts what Andy has stated about population loss.

We only heard that you need higher index numbers to "maintain" the age groups from 0-4 and 4-8 and that the stabilization of these groups were directly tied to the health index. Andy's solution was to build more hospitals, yours is to destroy them and allow more people to die off.

Which set of advice are we to take? I am considering your advice because the age groups of 0-4 and 4-8 have never come close to recovering much less stabilizing and still show a downward slope of 45 degrees on my graphs.

I guess what I am trying to say is, thank you for attempting to answer things that the gms should discuss with us on this open forum. Most helpful players including myself and many other do. But we are speaking from a position of pure ignorance in 90% of the cases we attempt to try and solve.

SF should repaint a map and should not be contingent on destroying said special or land forces that painted in the first place. A defender's special or land force only need to reoccupy territory to unpaint it. This has been the case in countless wars and unless I have missed some game news, the explanation you gave is inadequate, but appreciated.

I don't want to cause confusion, but I would rather bring conclusion.

It either is, or is not. There cannot be these if-then hypothesis that are untested and never proven. I have fought too many land wars with ground and special forces to be this unaware of the mechanics of how this "should" work. I am more than aware of how this does work, unless something has changed. If it has changed, point me to the game news that announced it. I will hope Andy has some time to look into this sooner than later as active wars happen all the time.

As I said in my first post, I'm not sure about my theory on un-painting, which is why I asked if anyone else could confirm it. All I can say is that I have always failed to un-paint by just walking units across a painted map, and that applies over a year and a half of fighting PvP wars. Not as many as you, granted, but still consistent. But maybe I was doing something wrong. I also watched Serpent fail to un-paint any more of his country that I had painted, once all my SF had been destroyed, although maybe he just couldn't be bothered. I'd really like to know myself from the GMs, but unfortunately they rarely answer forum questions. Let's hope they answer this one.

As far as the population bubble is concerned, I probably didn't make myself clear. There's no contradiction between what I am saying and what the GMs are saying. If you have too many old people, they are going to die. That's the problem. If you maintain a high HI, they will take longer to die and they will keep drawing their old age pension until they do. With a high HI you will just lose population more slowly. If you reduce HI, they will die quicker and you will get back to normal quicker. You will still lose the same amount of population, but less money, and you won't be fighting the bubble for as long.

As for the fleets - no idea on that one. Hopefully the GMs can answer it.

Hugs and respect

Jo

Oh yes Jo, I got what you were telling me in the first post. Your advice is much appreciated. I usually have to take the word of an experienced player because the GMs do refrain from making things clear.

I think you misunderstood what I meant. The advice or solution you gave was opposite of what the gms said. The case may be the same. But you highlighted what the problem may be. And gave the reason behind your suggestion for a fix. You explained what the gms failed to mention to dboyd, myself, and others when we made forum posts about it.

Andy failed to mention the issue of overall aging population and the solution, or suggestive solution, would only prolong what you have told us is the real problem. He said raise your health index. Or didn't, but rather hinted that this was the problem.

Remember right after that I asked him what was considered to be high? And what is a baseline? No answer.

This I see as a problem. From the GMs position. But Jo, you have certainly made your points clear and they are appreciated. I hope I didn't sound like I didn't appreciate your effort to answer the question. When situations like I explained happen with war, the prevailing excuse over the years, were that "some" countries "must" still be operating with the new war engine.

Also while we are at it, I notice players adding garrisons and replenishing air wings and land forces with no supply units. This was the obvious fix for not halving your upgraded unit quality. But I remember the explanation given me before about things not healing like fleets, cities, and so on could possibly be due to not having supply units, or enough of them.

Yep, SF have always unpainted for me. I haven't tried in the last year, but this was the case. Maybe it's just an unforeseen side effect of the map upgrades, check the WI of the country as well to see if maybe you are actually reclaiming the territory though the graphic doesn't reflect it.

I did CC. The War Index recovers around 2 points per game month where it should gain 20 - 30 points if the painted areas are reclaimed. This is why I brought the issue up. I got really close to allowing my enemy bring my war index under 20 so I unpainted the map, and to no avail. It went from 18 points to about 20, then 23 the next month, but I think those small increments were the result of cities and cap healing after buying the necessary construction.

There still seems to be a problem with SF's reclaiming painted areas of the map. I have run them back and forth twice over the map after destroying the unit that painted.

They reclaimed an estimated 25% of the painted areas, but I have run them over about 85% of the total painted area. Is this just a browser issue and they are really unpainted. Clearing my cache and all didn't help.

I'm using Firefox.

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