PSA: GF.02.09.2012.0001 (Fearless Blue)

This is not a test.

There are some players, or a group of them, who are intentionally tanking some very lucrative markets.

I'm only going to say this once. Trade responsibly. If I continue to see dismal profits and negative gains because of your actions I'm going to change the game to Universal Suffer-age.

If I cannot make money the good old fashioned way, I guess we'll have to return to the days of old.
I want my muuney!
Think about that.
This is the end of the message.

the same thing happens to me. I am ended up above 30T for all emterprises. I think someone stole my profits

Huh ?

You go girl! Again!

Is this affecting the markets on Golden Rainbow also?? I have NEVER seen the FMU market in the green......ever!

So people are reserving some production, waiting for a shortage, and selling? Which could mean CEOs such as myself could build a few corps for a product in high shortage and the next day find out there's no shortage...

These players are only aping the behavior of the ever-beloved supply fairy. When the supply of chaos gets too low, look for these things to happen. The FMU situation on KB has yet to recover from the last meddling, and those of us who sweated to make level 5 or 6 so we could build FMU corps are now building level 1 sevice corps to make some money. It is impossible to make any kind of long-term economic plan, because of this "deus ex machina" factor.

On the other hand, it could be a conspiracy involving the GM, and players who are actually operatives for the CIA, recruited as double agents from the former KGB (which still exists under the NKVD), using the game to send coded messages to the Illuminati via the Tri-Lateralists. This starts to make sense when you see "shortages" or "surpluses" which have no economic basis. And have you noticed how the price of GCs has been plummeting? Don't tell me that is coincidence. Operatives from the federal reserve, which is neither federal nor a reserve, may be consorting with either this bunch or the goons from the Bohemian Grove (some of whom are the same people) and spinning the facts with the help of MK-Ultra.

I'm closer to Maclean's last post on the matter. I'm sorely disappointing in how this behavior is affecting the markets. I've tug-o'-warred enough with these CEO's and countries to make them profitable to stand by and watch players fuzz the markets up, friend or foe. Enough is enough.

On the positive side, cheaper FMUs mean higher profits (or smaller losses) for all corps.

No David, it means Horrible losses for all my FMU corps.

It isn't polite, you could sell FMUs on the market and make money. I shouldn't have to take massive losses while you and Aqua tank the FMU markets. Not just on a single world, but all of them. That is a little short sighted.

It is clear that words won't stop you, but that's cool.

I thought this wouldn't have to get our of hand.

You could purchase FMU from FB and shuttle them to where your corps are, supply them and enjoy the savings. You don't have to tank the entire market game wide, and convince me you are doing us all some kind of favor.

There I go again, trying to use my words.

Ah bless, I do love you.

It is true that Aqua and I have been shuttling massive amounts of FMUs.

However, it is not true that I have dumped anything on the markets. Not one of my sales caused part of any of the problems. I sell in a very strategic way in order not to affect the markets. In fact, the majority of my FMUs have supplied my Holdings enterprise on LU which uses over 100k a month.

Aqua, on the other hand, does buy vast and dump vast. I have spoken to him about this and despite him saying that he'll strategically buy and sell with little affect to the market, he does not. I, personally, don't see the point in creating a downward pressure on price when one is selling. May as well just spread the sales.

I have also realised that activity in space increased dramatically for a period and others have transported large numbers of FMUs.

"Aqua, on the other hand, does buy vast and dump vast. I have spoken to him about this and despite him saying that he'll strategically buy and sell with little affect to the market, he does not."

This does not surprise me at all. There is a long history of this player (Aqua) doing things against the interest of not only his own (former) Federation, but also to the detriment of himself. There is certainly nothing wrong with making money in the game, however, when a CEO and/or president is mapping his/her economic strategies and plans, and builds according to the shortages/overages of a specific product, this 'dumping' effect has heavy consequences for all of us that have worked hard to get where we are.

David's eloquent prose and soft nature always impress me. He never fails to present a calm rationale in times of violent turbulence on the horizon.


I have sold tons of several different products and made my money without tanking any markets. And trust me I'm thinking I am setting some serious records on profits from product trading.

The only FMU market to go belly up was FB. And at first, it was the supply fairy. But WG, GR, KB and LU especially have been incredibly stable. This sudden overturn of green "by the millions" on these worlds reeks of market manipulation.

All I'm saying is that this and record numbers of profits can be made without tanking any market. The whole idea of tanking a market just bothers me some kind of way. It makes "no economic sense" to quote some random simcountry error.

Trading irresponsibly on an interplanetary basis has to incredibly short sighted.

Those players that have the infrastructure to complete trades on a scale large enough to tank markets DO NOT NEED to do it and makes it harder for newer players to achieve the same position.

From what I have read in the forums the GM's have consistantly come up with changes that discourage various "exploits" like this. I'm sure that most would agree that some of these changes have benefited the game and some have not.

What changes may happen?

How about interplanetary import tax of 20-25% or disallow trading in this way completely - maybe restrict trading between planets to space stations i.e. all products must change hands /empires before unloading on planet.

Although there are some that would prefer more direct action - bring in the space fighters! Piracy, got to love it...

How about, limiting the number of specific corps you can build.

Pour Exampleuh:-

HouseHold Products are a favourite for everyone.

Max that to, hmmm, 15, maybe 20?
Electric, 10. Flat.
Fmu, 15 - 20.
Oil, 15 - 20.
Services 15 - 20

etc etc

This would encourage people to build different corporations and perhaps meet the demand for many other products.

Just an idea.

Sunny, it is always a good idea to diversify your corp. building strategies, and thank you for bringing it up. The point still remains that we have players who forget the premise that for every action there is a reaction, and these reactions have a ripple effect on the rest of us i.e. the example that ARCCUK gave on possible consequences from the GM.

The Game already dictates to many things against the players so limiting the number of particular corps you can have is way over the top. Out of all the corps available only a tiny, tiny amount of them make money and you suggest a limit on those tiny few?? That's just nuts.

How about the GM's loosening the noose on those companies that don't make money so there are more that do??? If one corp tanks because of some long time huge player who think the game owes them something decides to blow it out then there would be many more to choose from. Players could actually build more then just 5 profitable types of companies. Give me a break, there are so many types of companies to build but this game only allows for maybe 6 or 7 of them to make money??? That is a joke and we all know it!!!

If the gm's constrict the profit machine they force more people to buy from the game and that is exactly what they want.

So, in order to curb a few players from over trading, Arc you propose an interplanetary import tax of 25%.

Do you work for Simcountry or us. The idea is not a good one. This needs to be addressed on a player to player level.

The gms cannot be summoned to solve every problem and another added cost is certainly not the way to go about it either.

Your proposal is not very well thought through. A tax like that would discourage participation in the already thin space trading market and would be cumbersome to implement. Too many variables.

Damn good points Redman, and sunny, I don't think penalizing players by restricting the number of product specific corps you can build is going to solve any of this.

If David cannot reason with Aqua, then I think something else is on order. David is about the best person to reach out to him. If I say something I may just start a war. We're fedded so that is the last thing I want.

But I want to make money with my corps even more.

And to be clear, Trading products in space is NOT an exploit. It is perfectly within the bounds of the game. Trading products is exactly what the feature was designed to do. Just because we don't agree with Aqua's actions doesn't mean he is exploiting anything. He is making poor choices. He could make just as much money if not more by NOT tanking the market. He is just impatient. And is killing his own profit margin with his impatience. As well as the corp building everyone else is doing.

This has nothing to do with big/small players. Any newbie with 10 shuttles could accomplish the same thing. Their game minds just have not progressed that far in terms of figuring out how to squeeze a profit from the game past country building.

I really didn't expect this thread to take such a turn I just thought I would reach out to those who knew what they were doing and ask them to think about a stop to flooding the market with product

no i dont propose an import tax, but rather use it as an example. there is always a possibility of such a measure being implemented by the gm's to stop markets being tanked due to unrestricted trading between planets, and do point out that previous game changes have discouraged certain activities that were deemed unacceptable but negatively affected other aspects of the game. again, i repeat these are conclusions drawn from posts i have read, not personal experience.

I work for neither the gm or for you ("us").

perhaps my post was lazy and i didnt fully explain my meaning. no-one in this post so far has called for gm intervention but rather tried to add to the argument against tanking markets by pointing out that gm intervention may result from it.

as for my call for space fighters I really can't wait! so that ones for real

and to be clear ;)

a new player will find it increasingly difficult to start their own space centre if profits from corps cannot be relied upon, especially if their is a limit put on the quantity of each type corp a player can build OR the frequent manipulation of markets continues. So two or three points we agree on PH?

Backbone to stop the manipulation? I guess my "game mind" has not progressed enough yet. Either that or I have not yet enough GC or SC$ to retaliate.

Still want space fighters though!

*
"respond" is probably the word i meant to use instead of "retaliate"

just in case im mis-understood again.... I really MUST start to preview before posting!