On God and the Environment

To stop hijacking another thread I though we should transport our conversation about God and environmental responsibility to a new thread. This way other people's supposed craziness can be forgotten for now and we can focus on our belief systems and other pressing questions like does Nix post too often.

So here are the premises: Firstly, does God order his followers to protect the environment or allow us to use it however we see fit? And secondly, does connection to the earth and the natural world translate into connection to and celebration of God?

This question greatly depends on the belief system in question. For the three peoples of the book (Islam, Judaism and Christianity) there is a firm belief that the natural world is a creation of God and that humanity is to govern over that creation according to God's will. But, there would be the expectation that all should be sustainable. There are more and less direct statements of such a thing, but simply by looking over the law books one can see that there is clearly a purpose for how things were to be done. Much of that is to ensure that disease keeps away from the people and that the land regenerates. Other beliefs have similar prohibitions and concepts (Miq Maq spirituality, Hinduism and to some extent Buddhism come to mind).

"Firstly, does God order his followers to protect the environment or allow us to use it however we see fit?

This assumes that God or any higher power exists, which is scientifically unlikely and unable to be proven. Not saying people don't have the right to believe whatever they want, but those are my beliefs.

I believe we have an obligation to take care of our environment for future generations.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

This assumes that God or any higher power exists, which is scientifically unlikely and unable to be proven.<!-/Quote-!>

Hmmm, That same argument could be used for the great majority of whats considered 'science' now! How many supposed scientific facts are there of antiquity or even today that change by the minute? All because you can see or even at times understand a concept does not mean its impossible. In fact many times because our feeble brains of which we only use 1/10 of 1% we try to make up scenarios to fit whatever outcome we desire and look over certain obvious facts.

T-Mac I do not think God orders' the followers. If such were true, We would not have freedom of choice. Without freedom of choice, We would just be slaves. Love does not include slavery. Love simply states to reach out, be patient, to care, to nurture, ect.. ect... By most in this world love is thought of as good and hate is thought of as evil. Self seeking destruction does not fit very well into love and if this is proposed by We should take care of our environment from our mental health and physical needs to the environment. I would then say under general pretense that if love is the ultimate good, then that would be the connection to a God of Good, and if hate the opposite is the ultimate evil then that would be such a way to communicate to a God of Evil.
On to allow us to use it, Yes, I think we are allowed to use it as we choose as well. Wise or unwise.

Tom, I believe in the freedom of that choice, to not allow you your freedom to ch

if i hate murder, is that evil? hating evil, is evil? you can't really rate "good" and "evil" as equivalent to love and hate.

so we have to think about what "God," we are talking about. Lawful? Protective? Wise? in all these aspects, there is legitimate room for both love and hate. judgement and mercy. in relation to the the care of our planet, the subject, one would have to make assumptions. one that it'd be wise to preserve the planet for future generations. and two, that it is ours to use.

if your a rancher, you'd care and protect your cattle. but you'd still kill and eat them. it is not wrong to make use of the worlds resources, but at what cost? where is it two much?

Wow interesting and deep topic started here. First and foremost one has to define "God". Is "God" a entity of divine power, spiritual belief, or individual(s) with greater knowledge? That needs to be addressed first.

Next we have to look at ourselves and realize the human species is a parasite. Hear me out kids, a parasite is a organism that feeds of it's host until the resources are depleted. Then moves onto the next host and the cycle continues. Humans are the definition of this.

1. We are depleting the earth for personal gain ($$), not survival. We strip 1000's of acre of rain forest for timber without replacing what we take.
2. We strip the earth top soil for massive agriculture yet we don't replace this top soil. Just rotate crops hoping the nutrients are replaces naturally.
3. We have massive starvation in parts of the world, yet here in America tons of food is wasted.
4. We

"In fact many times because our feeble brains of which we only use 1/10 of 1% we try to make up scenarios to fit whatever outcome we desire and look over certain obvious facts."

Exactly - that is why religion exists (in my opinion). Because people are frightened of death and the awful things in the world and want to believe that there is reason behind life and that in the end everything will be better.

I do believe everyone has a right to believe in whatever they want. However, just because the majority of this forum is religious, that does not mean I will not say what I believe.

"Hmmm, That same argument could be used for the great majority of whats considered 'science' now! How many supposed scientific facts are there of antiquity or even today that change by the minute?"

That's where religion and science often clash. Scientists are continually reevaluating evidence and

@Josias Good point, but alas we speak of an action vs a person, or to the point I was at, a living organism. The principal you speak is valid; to hate an action is not to hate the living world or the inhabitants their of. We simply do have dislikes and such, but you could say the love of money is evil. I still bring the point of loving an object is not what I was actually saying in my general statement. It does no good for future inhabitants to have no resources. On the other hand, murder is hate. So its does go counter to love, and that would still end in up love vs hate. I expect that a great love could not really hate. Now killing might not have hate, but murder will always have hate.

@devils I think you are somewhat correct about the parasite, but you must know that we can choose to be any animal we want or choose to actually suppress that. We are so disconnected by how the world is organized that we sometimes don't realize we are helping

Very interesting rebuttal "Dry" and insight. Personal this is one of the more interesting topics of late. Actual real world/life topics.

To further elaborate on the topic. The old age saying "There is a thin line between religion and science". Is quit true because both need each other.

Lets move even more deep into the conversation/topic. RELIGION is a way of govern the people(s). A way to control the masses and gain power as well as influence.

God is English speaking word to describe the divine. Yahweh if I am not mistaken is middle eastern with the same meaning. I could even go more ancient and use "Sky God" for the Babylonians.

Point being we as humans have to justify/label everything. Like stated by others, humans need a comfort, blanket to help justify the means to the end. Heaven and Hell..Good and Bad...Black and White..Yin and Yang..etc.

What we don't understand or

people are sheep, this is true. its why the western church where able to dominate politics as long as it did.

science has replaced the church as the moral guide, but science, isn't a morality guide, just tool. it has brought us many wonderful things, but also has justified many horrible things.

the church, can be accused of such, but the religion, and morality, itself, doesn't change.

if science says something is possible, like texting in a movie theater, we have a tendency to think thats our right, regardless if it bugs the guy behind us. where as morality would mean to love our neighbor as our self, and put the cell-phone away before some one gets shot in the chest.

one might say one should use common since. but science can't really say anything about that. religion can. and does, with the golden rule. where as science justifies greed as much as it supports moderation.

science leav

'and we can focus on our belief systems and other pressing questions like does Nix post too often.' LOL T-Mac I'll take that as a complement ;) Anyways bro did you get a answer?

I'm Telling you Bro...God wont save those who wont save his creation (Mother Nature)

In the Book, man was given dominion over the earth,, but it was never said tyhat he should pillage it. Pillaging brings its own judgment--cut down too much vegetation and you get a desert, as in the Sahara. Harvest some species for food without regard to sustainability, and you get extinction, and no more of that food supply, as in the passenger pigeon. Kill off the cat population in a frenzied terror of witchcraft, and you get the Black Death killing off a good share of the population of europe, due to the sudden and unchecked multiplication of the rats. I think the Creator is for now, sitting back tosee just what we will do with the earth; We can destroy ourselves, if we choose to...On the other side, there is a certain amount of lunacy regarding
"protection" of some species at the expense of personal property, as in cases where farmers are mandated to starve rather than grow their crops, because someone claimed to have seem a species of mo

@ Nix - No I never got an answer to the pressing question of whether or not you post too much.

I think Maclean is speaking more to what I had originally posted and Nix is a bit more harsh about God's love and favor going towards those who protect or abuse our world for their personal gain. I find it hard to believe that the idea of domesticating animals should become a practice of never letting the cows out of the barn and feeding them silage with 10k head crammed together. The argument that we need food or we need cheap food seems to me to lose its force when I see these types of practices. Sure, we have free will, we are using what God has given us, but I think there is something lost here that shows a disconnect between us, nature, animals and God. In fact, I argue that by getting closer to all of it, by freeing ourselves from the need to constantly get more, we can become closer to God.
In relation to what some others here have

LOL TMac. The question I referring to was 'does God order his followers to protect the environment or allow us to use it however we see fit?'

I have been almost absent from the game for two years, so at the moment....No I do not post too much. Wait until I get into the flow of things again LOL

Hi Maclean. Without Mother Nature you are dead. Simple. Mother Nature comes first, then humans. Simple.

God is coming to get you Nix,

mwuhahaha !!!

Not until I have finished what he sent me to do,

mwuhahaha !!!

Oh you're finished buddy boy !

Go hug your last tree before you're burned in tyres.

The snake will have to be defanged so that it yields no more venom.

I may just have to geld you too.

Quiet, for you know not to whom you talk.

WildStallion. This snake has already been defanged a long time ago. But if a snake is not being a snake what else can it be? LOL

Ok Culebra....Game on. I'm on FB and LU. You can bring all the tyres in the World but they wont burn. I have been saving Mother Natures tears.

Careful with the negative snake remarks!

Grrrrr..... I mean Ssssssss!

Did I hear somebody asking for the noise to be kept quiet, sounds like it's just going to have to be game on time again......

Not all snakes need fangs to throttle their prey.

Ponies run at the sight of me, and Nix's are so insignificant that we smash them much as the Haydron collider does a sub atomic particle.

Game on ? It is finished before it started.

Less chat more action Culebra. We know why ponies run at the sight of you. You've been told before...go to Anne Summers.