| Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 11:57 am |
So an enterprise called XON F1 has been purposely buying shares of my corporations. Sadly this XON guy is at war level 0. So I can not attack him. He has negative cash in all of this countries and enterprises yet still will buy shares of my corps I'm trying to make upgrade to 250 q&e. I don't have the countries or space to buy my own shares IF. Now he is taking ownership of my corporations that I have to wait game years in order to IPO.
Normally I set my share % at 24.98% for my country, 24.95% for my enterprise. The moment my corps start to lose value the IF funds sell their shares and XON had orders to buy those shares.
This is now the shares position:
The Homarian Empire 24.98%
Zen Enterprises 24.95%
XON F1 50.7%
Now my( his now )corporations are losing their 250q&e upgrades. This isn't fair at all.
Is there any way to counter this? I know it's a free share market and all, but it's unfair how some guy I don't even know can take ownership of my corporations and I can't even attack him or do anything in my power about it, because he's some econ player on FB at WL0 I'm worried he will keep buying out my corps. If there is a way to block him, please let me know. I'd love to know how to stop this... This is a good reason to take war protection off people below wl3 on FB -_- This isn't the first time I had issues with XON either. Idk what his deal is with me. I'm a very friendly and cooperative player on simcountry yet he will bother me. This is very annoying how this guy can just buy my shares and I cant even use force to stop him. Now I may be over reacting, but this really really pisses me off tbh... The fact he's even allowed to buy shares while in debt doesn't even make sense. I know XON is banned from the forum, atleast I think he is. So I know he can not respond. If anyone is able to help me please tell me what to do so I can avoid having to deal with him annoying me. I can not shut down the corporations now since he owns them. I do not want him to take what I worked for.
| Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 02:51 pm |
I fear I have helped bankroll XON. I offered some loans on the market and he's my biggest borrower. I had no idea what he did with the money.
However, why do you offer so many shares of your companies on the open market? Seems to me, if you want to keep control of your companies, you shouldn't sell a majority of the shares? Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but I would never let go of more than 49% of a company I wanted to keep in my control.
Never having sold any shares of my corporations and running only a country, not a corporation, there's a lot I don't know about. Is there any reason why you can't retain 51% of the shares?
| Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 03:36 pm |
That's because 99.99% of players do not go out of thier way to buy shares of other players' corporations. It's very rare to see an enterprise forcefully buy shares of another player owned corporation, but some people are so desperate they're willing to pay a trillion in shares just for a simple corporation, which is actually very funny since you could just wait for that player to push taxes in order to lower the value of those shares. So XON basically is wasting his money he doesn't have in the first place. Usually your shares are bought by automatic IF from AI c3s and countries. Most enterprises who want to go over the 750 cap buy their own state corporations shares, then move them to another country. XON just goes and takes 16 of my corps without any thought or common courtesy. He probably plans to take more of them. It's not the first time he's done something to bother other players who're just trying to run a good econ in their country.
The reason I own less then 25% is to have my corporation upgraded to 250 q&e for max profit. Public corporations who's major share holders own less then 25% besides IF will be upgraded more, freeing up more workers and creating higher quality products. You also get some cash by selling them in the first place, however I'm not worried about the cash. I just want the best corporations in my countries but I can not do that now that XON wants to degrade my corps and take them from me.
Do I have the right to be upset? No in all honesty I don't, but unlike most players everyone who knows me knows I don't like when others get involved with my assets. It's reasons like this why I wish FB had no protection. Players above wl3 have to protect themselves while those under wl3 can basically troll people and no one can touch them. It seems 90% of players on FB are under wl3.
You can thank XON for taking loans. He's spending them on something that will take many game decades to pay back. XON knows that I didn't like it when he bothered me once, now he's doing it again. All because he's protected by war levels and knows I can't do anything to stop him. I lost all respect for him.
| Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 05:20 pm |
What's his country?
| Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 06:50 pm |
Zen, you could try to nationalize the corps that suffered hostile takeovers. If you succeed, you'll buy a majority of their shares. Xon could retaliate by moving the corps out of your country before the end of the auction. That would give you newly unemployed workers allowing you to open new corps.
But nationalization is not cost-effective because the shares are way overpriced.
That means you're making a huge profit off of Xon. He's way overpaying for your shares. Consider the example you provided: XON Product Effectivity 031. That corp has a market value of 1.7T and he bought 50.07% of the shares. But its assets are only worth 233B. He paid more than 7 times what the shares are worth.
I believe that makes you the winner and him the loser. His strategy doesn't make economic sense.
I understand you want to keep the corps at 250 quality upgrades. That's only possible if you nationalize the corps and then try again to sell shares to buyers who don't get a controlling interest. As you see, the share market can be rough.
| Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 11:35 pm |
I see. Thank you Madoff, however at this rate I feel that I shouldn't even keep the corporations or attempt to buy the shares back. I'll just keep building more and I'll sell the rest of my shares of the corps when or if he moves them, I won't own any of their shares. Does hiding my corporation list work? I did that and I don't know if others can still see my corporations. I've never had an issue with shares before and I knew other players would buy shares if they see a good reason. However when I have corps over 1.5T and people buy 50% of those shares it seems the amount of money they lose will be way more then what could be paid back for years. Especially when all I'd have to do is set tax at 75% sometimes the game will set the tax that high in one game month and money that's built up in the public corps may empty out at a pretty large rate. Yet I'm not ready to set taxes because I'm still building more corporations and increasing the population of that country... My corps were perfect at 49.93% ( 24.98%-24.95% ). They all made between 1-2B avg. Now their quality is going down and they'll lose profit. In the future once I have more countries I'll buy some of the shares in investment funds to avoid another buyer from keeping a large %. I wouldn't care if he bought under 25% but no, he has to buy the whole thing.
| Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - 12:02 am |
This turned into a pretty interesting (and informative) thread.
| Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - 12:26 am |
I believe hiding the corp list is to make it easier to manage your page and does not hide the corps from other players on the IF market page. If you want, I can go look to see if I can find a corp you have hidden.
| Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - 08:20 pm |
Zen, complex question. There are a few reasonable responses. Give me some time here to get back. BTW, Madoff is not wrong although you seem to desire a stronger response. In the meantime...
| Monday, November 30, 2015 - 09:08 pm |
Zen, I have several corp.s in which my CEO owns 24.90%. But by having my Country buy a bit more than half of the remaining stock you can block the hostile takeover. My Country will not 'own' the corp. You will be able to maintain upgrades @ 250. Also, as Madoff said this strategy will be a failure. Repeat, the Country will not override the CEO's ownership or affect your upgrades.
| Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - 01:12 am |
here's a message for the little pip-ass who decided to take over one of our private corps gained control of it then gave up their CEO and disappeared from the game
WE ARE roaming AND searching for you, and when found someone's gonna be so unhappy PERIOD!
WE WONT LET UP PERIOD!
as for the theme as posted here within this forum.... hostile bidding will not be tolerated PERIOD BY US ANYMORE
TIME IS MONEY
| Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 04:00 pm |
It seems, as though this is also happening to me, on a few worlds.
To those buying my shares, i will simply accept all the cash, and before you take ownership, close the corps, or tax the fruit cake out of them so that they leave my country. Your investments, are not welcome, but your cash is. haha
You've been warned.
| Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 02:53 am |
When money is no time, to buy IPO's to cover ones back against not logging in makes sense. I used to but corps at 0.005cent a share when corps went into 10% production and a CEO had let more than 50% of his/her shares go out of their control to investment funds lol
| Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 03:16 am |
I've recently had the same issue with a war level 0 country. It really chaps my a**.McGraw if you ever get to war level 3 its gonna be me and you,but mostly you!!!!
| Friday, November 25, 2016 - 12:04 pm |
This was a funny thread...
| Friday, November 25, 2016 - 09:05 pm |
XON? I think I remember this player, I'm on good terms with him. I find him a good player. I can only think you must have said or done something to piss him off to why he's doing these hostile takeovers. Also, is'nt he banned on these forums because of what he said to the GMs a long time ago?
| Saturday, November 26, 2016 - 07:41 am |
Don't know anything about how or why he's banned James.
But this thread.... Yaaaaassss...!
I love the part where it is asked what to do about it. The hostile buying thing.
Before I think of answering the question, I have one of my own.
Wisco, Zen, Jammiebrown, Zentrino, Chiwoo, Vespian, and any other active players: Tell me, do you run your investment funds manually or automatically? Riddle me that.
| Saturday, November 26, 2016 - 06:38 pm |
You know, I'd rather not draw my conclusions. Although I rarely ask a question I don't know the answer to. Any takers?
| Saturday, November 26, 2016 - 08:16 pm |
This is an old thread, but I manually run mine now.
My rant was about players who would actively buy shares when they're very expensive instead of waiting for them to lose value and then start to buy them. I don't buy back my own shares into my other countries' investment fund until they lose value so that I can make profit off of the sold shares and buy more shares with the surplus cash in my investment fund.
| Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 01:52 am |
So, to your knowledge, you buy shares by managing your fund manually? Is this marginally better than doing so using the automation or much better. I am interested in hearing from the other players as well.
| Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 04:04 am |
Automatic for me.
| Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 06:30 am |
Automated investment funds buy when the P/E is more or less below 55. Then they sell when they've made a good profit, supposedly of at least 100%. They do a decent job with that strategy.
But a player can do much better by focusing on asset value, instead of P/E. The line item for "assets" shows roughly what a corp is worth, after adding the value of the upgrades, net cash, and initial production plants. The automated investment funds don't care about asset value and usually buy at a price that makes market value higher than asset value. A player can be a value investor and buy only when the market value is less than asset value.
A value investor can get a lot of undervalued shares that the automated investment funds reject. But buying shares of corps run by others is somewhat like buying lottery tickets because most players neglect their corps. Manual investment can be very profitable. But automated investment avoids the frustration of watching inactive or neglectful controlling shareholders.
| Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 07:10 am |
Mine manually simply because I only invest in my own corporations and keep their 40% maximum investment fund share ownership in order to block any enterprises from taking the corporation over. I do not use my investment fund for profit, simply to secure my public corporation assets. I don't waste my time buying and selling shares of foreign corporations however I'm sure if I did I would make more profit for my investment fund. I don't really use my investment fund other than to secure my own public corporation assets within my empire.
I don't pay enough attention to my econ game as much as I should. Mostly because all of the money I make goes out the window. I simply do the 24.99% country ownership of shares with the other 40% in one country investment fund and 35.01% in another country investment fund. For me this allows my public 250/250 upgraded corporations to send all profits to my country and empire investment funds utilizing 100% of that corporations profit. This is to my understanding a very good way to use the investment fund in a large multi-country econ based empire.
| Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 07:11 am |
oops, double post.
| Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 07:54 am |
Every 1 trillion in investment funds provides roughly 4 billion per game year in extra income for its country. It would be profitable to build up the investment funds, instead of using them as storage for overpriced shares. Communism is inefficient.
| Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 03:27 pm |
But but but but communism has never been tried before and/or you don't know what communism actually is.
-Random Internet Marxist Fanboy.
| Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 08:22 pm |
that jumped to the communism debate rather quickly.
| Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 08:27 pm |
Communism is inefficient because it makes the population overall less productive causing economic collapse, the less involvement the State has the better for the economy. I am not fan of communism at all. Free market capitalism is what increases quality, production, wages, standard of living ect ect. I know. However in simcountry there are caps. Something that does not exist in the real world free market.
I'm pretty sure for countries there is a cap on how many different corporations that you can invest in at a given time. If your empire is very large with over a billion people you'll probably need to use the entire cap of different corporations to invest in. If no one has ever reached this cap and can disprove that I will change how I use my investment fund.
I agree with you 100% Madoff. If I took the time to buy foreign shares in abandoned/neglected corporations and the corporation eventually gained value again I would increase my investment fund quickly. I'm just pretty sure there's a cap in how many different corporate shares I can have in a country. I'm pretty sure enterprises are unlimited.
How I use my investment fund, is that I decrease my own corporations value by decreasing employment then start buying shares when they're really cheap. Afterwards I can increase employment and corporate welfare/production and sell off profits. Rinse and repeat the cycle.
You are correct Madoff in this argument I will admit that. I am not as much as an econ player with as much experience for sure. I am simply stating my point of view which is corporate security over investment fund profitability. If there is no cap, I will start using my investment fund more and take your advice. I hope you understand where I'm coming from with my point of view.
I am not a liquid econ player if you catch my drift. Very static.
| Monday, November 28, 2016 - 03:38 am |
To my knowledge, I think the real question I posed, or at least why I posed it went over everyone's head save one. I expected his and your answer Zen, I am still interested in the others' answers. I won't hold my breath. I just wonder why some things happen after a thread like this.
| Monday, November 28, 2016 - 06:00 am |
I also run mine manually because eventually I want to take all of my corps truly public. The reason I want this is in a thread on the beginners forum, Private corps vs shares, I bumped it up so you can read it. Wasn't sure how to just paste the link haha
| Monday, November 28, 2016 - 06:27 am |
Thanks for your reply Wisco. I don't need to read the thread but I will. Unless something has changed in the last 3 years I was absent, I know the benefits. If you want to learn how to spice up your posts with hyperlinks, just click---> in this post and read all about it. Or you can always check the same link in the forum sidebar.
| Monday, November 28, 2016 - 06:33 am |
Thanks, the struggle was real
| Tuesday, November 29, 2016 - 03:11 am |
I buy tons of other peoples shares, only from inactive players who have corps with extremely low market values. If anyone doesn't know this type 998.8 into the p/e ratio search box and lots of corps with low market values show up. These are almost always corps who's owners are inactive