| Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 09:06 pm |
As title says, what should NATO do about Erdogan?
| Monday, August 1, 2016 - 01:30 am |
NATO wont do anything but im afraid if he keeps this up there will be a civil war.
| Tuesday, August 2, 2016 - 02:51 am |
As always I strongly believe America should mind it's own business. The people of Turkey will decide what should happen at the ballot box.
| Tuesday, August 2, 2016 - 05:17 am |
Johanas, they involved us when they joined NATO, uses our technology, like the F-16s and many other American vehicles. They can't have it both ways.
| Tuesday, August 2, 2016 - 08:10 am |
Erdogan spoke about centralizing the power over the military closer to him to get better control, and that came only just a week or so before the failed coup attempt. Maybe some high ranking people in the military primarily, acted in a state of panic and maybe too hurry, to prevent Erdogans further grab over the military. Maybe they tried to prevent exactly that.!?
| Tuesday, August 2, 2016 - 12:32 pm |
No we involved ourselves during the 60's fighting a cold war against the Soviets. NATO is a relic of a war that was never fought yet we spent uncounted trillions of dollars preparing for it.
Seems like the military-industrial complex made out like bandits.
| Tuesday, August 2, 2016 - 03:54 pm |
Johanas, we didn't force Turkey to join NATO. if Turkey wants us to stay out of their business, they're free to leave at any time and give us back the nukes, military assets, and everything else that ensures them the security they have now. Put up or shut up is what I say.
| Wednesday, August 3, 2016 - 04:23 am |
^^^ I agree, Turkey chose to become part of NATO in a bid to become part of the E.U, No one made Turkey join NATO. However, Erdogan let that power go to his head when he chose to authorize the downing of a Russian SU-24, he used NATO as a shield knowing Russia would not respond, because NATO...AKA the U.S would respond. I believe NATO should kick Turkey out.
| Wednesday, August 3, 2016 - 05:53 am |
Yup. Turkey is the reason Israel can't join NATO. Turkey is the only one who vetoed their application into NATO.
Kick NATO out and then everyone will vote Israel in.
| Wednesday, August 3, 2016 - 03:46 pm |
Turkey has always been secular -concerned it is going to be more radical as Erdogan is an Islamist.
| Wednesday, August 3, 2016 - 06:32 pm |
Have NATO kick Turkey out*
| Thursday, August 4, 2016 - 02:53 am |
I am not sure what NATO's purpose is anymore. I really don't think Russia is going to invade Europe, what it was originally set up to prevent. It has also made European countries lazy. Most have no real military forces (Germany's largest ship is a frigate), relying on the US if something would happen which is why we spend so much more than everyone else.
Maybe US should pull out and let everyone stew for a while. Maybe it would make them appreciate us more.
| Thursday, August 4, 2016 - 04:19 am |
The only logical perspective that I noticed here:
"As always I strongly believe America should mind it's own business. The people of Turkey will decide what should happen at the ballot box."
| Thursday, August 4, 2016 - 05:05 am |
Eugene, tell that to Eastern Europe. They are now more than ever desperate to get in NATO ever since Russian expansion into Ukraine and Crimea. Had Ukraine's application into NATO been accepted, none of that would have happened.
With that being said, just because you don't see NATO's purpose anymore, doesn't mean there isn't any. And I don't think you're more qualified to say there isn't any threat from Russia to Europe. If that's the case, they could easily opt out of NATO, but they don't. That should say something.
The simple fact is, the US wants and I believe the US should have and be able to wield power and have a say in what goes on in the world. It'd be in our best interest to do so. It'd be akin to saying I don't see any purpose in a strong federation.
As for John West, the other logical perspective is that America is minding it's own business when they're obligated to ensure the safety of Turkey. Don't like America or Europe having a say? Leave it.
I'm very cautious, especially of Russians who say, "Oh no, we're not out to get you! We're really not the boogeyman! Pfft, what do you think we'll do? Invade you? Of course not!" And then decide to attack them when their guards down.
| Thursday, August 4, 2016 - 12:33 pm |
I don't see any Constitutional authority or requirement for the United States to play world policeman.
Our "say" should be limited to good terms with all countries and trade.
I know this frightens you. But I am in the company of great radical men when I say it.
Radicals like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none."
| Thursday, August 4, 2016 - 04:01 pm |
Johanas, those radical men aren't alive today knowing there's a country capable of wiping the rest of the world out.
Our requirement to defend other nations come from NATO obligations and treaties.
With that being said, There is no benefit to us limiting our influence. It'd be detrimental to us otherwise if the US had let Russia take over Europe right from the start during the cold war.
| Thursday, August 4, 2016 - 09:25 pm |
Yea, but I think there some countries we are defending that we should actually be destroying such as Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria. I think we are just defending the wrong people. The people who are our enemy.
| Friday, August 5, 2016 - 01:30 am |
In a perfect world the U.S could mind its own Business. Unfortunately, if you have watched the news this is far from it. I personally believe the U.S should pull out of the rest world and watch it all collapse and burn. But sooner or later we (U.S), would have to respond to a threat of some sorts. As for NATO, if its going to exist every nation in it should pay their fair share. The U.S alone cannot afford to pay for others protection, given our $19.3T and counting debt.
| Saturday, August 6, 2016 - 12:47 pm |
Russia isn't the boogyman. But it is a great way for defense corporations to rake in hundreds of billions of dollars.
If you look at the facts rationally. America has invaded and toppled many more countries than Russia.
Our foreign policy since 1947 has been bombing the living shi* out of brown people to bring them freedom/save them from communism/liberate their oil.
| Saturday, August 6, 2016 - 03:41 pm |
Ok Johanas, keep regurgitating talking points more even though I already addressed your statements.
Tell Ukraine and Turkey that Russia isn't he boogeyman. We all know Turkey would have had its ass fucked over if it wasn't in NATO after the downing of 2 jets.
And if anything, I would be the one who looks at facts more rationally and would be more objective than you. I'm a muslim and a somali (Need verification?)
Me and my family wouldn't be here in the US without the help from the government.
The US invasion of Iraq was necessary in order to repel the invasion of Kuwait who was a US ally at the time.
Ask Eastern Europeans why they want to join NATO and why they voted for politicians who want their country to join NATO. It isn't because Russia has a plan to give them free cookies.
| Saturday, August 6, 2016 - 03:44 pm |
America isn't without flaws, but it's like a giant clumsy guy who always tries to be helpful.
| Saturday, August 6, 2016 - 06:04 pm |
Turkey had an almost century long history of secularism and modernity in comparison to other governments in the region. This was made possible through the military, by whatever means. This current president seems to be grabbing power wherever he could; even stating that the attempted coup was a gift from God to help him identify his true enemies. This is a president in charge of a member of NATO, think about that. If he wants to become a strongman dictator, it wouldn't be copacetic with the west. Additionally, this same president has subtle signs of approval for ISIS. Coincidentally, their borders are open for anyone to travel into ISIS territory, and the shooting down of a Russian aircraft is most incriminating given that it's mission was to target ISIS. What if Germany or France did such a thing?
| Sunday, August 7, 2016 - 01:59 am |
Don't get mad bro. Facts are not talking points.
Russia has it's own problems. And NATO expanding right up to their doorstep isn't the way to peaceful co-existence.
Is Putin a strongman? Sure. But his people elected him with a strong majority every time he runs. Same with Assad and Erdogan.
We can't choose the leaders for other countries that we want. It's called democracy.
America should defend our own borders, have the best paid, best equipped, best trained military on the planet.
And if Canada or Mexico invades us we should flatten them.
Other than that we spend more than the top five other countries combined on policing the world. It's time to stop the insanity and take care of our own problems here at home.
I served my country faithfully for 28 years. I have been in combat. I have seen and done things that still wake me up in the middle of the night sweating.
That gives me every right to be a pacifist when it comes to foreign policy.
| Sunday, August 7, 2016 - 04:25 am |
Sorry Johanas. You may have served and I congratulate you on your service, but as an American born citizen, it's my ass now on the line if WW3 breaks out. I'm going to be the one who's going to be drafted and will have to die out there while you already served.
My point is, if anything, I'm more likely to pick a decision that would not endanger me, than you. Seeing as to how you're not in any danger anymore.
I also have a right to say, only way to ensure peace is to make it lopsided in our favor.
More allies, more funding, more vehicles, more bodies, more weapons, better fifth generation jets, all the things to make sure Russia can't even think about pulling a single trigger.
And who gives a rat's ass what Russia thinks? If their neighbors wish to join NATO, because of the actions of Russia, then that is Russia's fault. Perhaps they shouldn't have been making them feel like they're next after Ukraine.
Russia's own actions towards its neighbors isn't the way to peaceful existence. I wouldn't be surprised if Canada allied themselves more with Russia if the US wished to take their land.
In fact, I think we have an obligation to ensure world peace.
| Monday, August 8, 2016 - 03:20 am |
You have the right track.
What if Russia helped overthrow the legal government of Canada with various shady tactics?
And then rushed money and military aid to the rebels who seized power?
And the people of Ontario wanted to join the US out of fear?
Would that be legal?
| Monday, August 8, 2016 - 05:54 pm |
I don't really think Russia is problem anymore. It's countries like North Korea who has nukes and Iran who is developing them. I think we should go in full force and take them out. We could destroy both countries in a day or two. I agree that we should not police the world but we should defend ourselves as best as possible against all threats and potential threats.
| Monday, August 8, 2016 - 08:57 pm |
Idk about Iran but the reason we can not attack North Korea is because of China. It's been this way since the Korean war. Now China isn't scared of losing North Korea. China is scared of South Korea and North Korea being reunited. It would become a much stronger trade power in Asia and South Korea is already a very strong country.
Also did you see how long it took for us to take over Iraq? It would take weeks at the least for Iran. North Korea would end up a lot like the first Korean War and I don't see a pretty outcome at all. I see a world war. North Korea has a strong military who will fight to the last man, it is not like the Middle East. They also will nuke South Korean cities and our navy in the region before we could take them over. Which is a loss for everyone.
| Monday, August 8, 2016 - 10:06 pm |
Zen, we took over Iraq in 2 weeks when we captured Baghdad just rolling tanks in with little resistance and the Iraqi Army running away. The rest of the time was just us looking for Saddam for a couple months and then occupying the country.
| Tuesday, August 9, 2016 - 02:44 am |
I lost it on that one. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
| Tuesday, August 9, 2016 - 03:10 am |
Invasion of Iraq War Timeline 2003
March 20: The United States begins the invasion of Iraq; coordinating a satellite-guided tomahawk cruise missile strike on Baghdad. American, British, Australian, Polish, and Danish military operations begin; ground troops move into Iraq.
April 10: Fall of Baghdad: Coalition forces moved into Baghdad, symbolically ending the twenty-four year reign of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.
May 1: U.S. President George W. Bush declares major combat operations in Iraq over.
May 15 - U.S. forces launch Operation Planet X, capturing roughly 260 people.
May 23 - L. Paul Bremer issues Coalition Provisional Authority Order Number 2, dissolving the Iraqi Army and other entities of the former Ba'athist state.
But no, go ahead. Please give me some sources that the war went on. The only other war that went on was War against Terror.
| Tuesday, August 9, 2016 - 03:13 am |
Hell, take a look at this fucking pic Johanas.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 12:46 pm |
That will make the families of the 4486 military personnel who died in Iraq feel much better. Most of those KIA were long after "the end of major combat operations." Not to mention the tens of thousands of men and women who came home maimed.
Iraq was a huge mistake and the Middle East is still paying the price. Once again we stuck our nose in someone else's business. We borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars to blow up haji and then borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars to rebuild what we blew up.
It makes my head hurt with the sheer insanity of it all.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 01:09 pm |
Johanas, and who's insisting on sticking our nose in the middle east? Trump may have been right the first time when he said we should stay out. But, now he's insisting on carpet bombing them, targeting families of ISIS terrorists. He also called for increasing military responses and retaliation.
The Trump back in 2001 would have lead this country better at that time especially during the recessions, but he's not the same Trump now. Pick the candidate who's the better option RIGHT NOW instead of picking the candidate you felt like you missed out on initially. You can tell the Trump now is affected mentally in his head. He's a buffoon.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 07:30 pm |
I think we should bomb the families of the terrorists over there because the families are the ones directly making the terrorists. Manufacturing them by training them to terrorize and teaching them jihad. The families are the ones supporting and making the terrorists. It's where they come from. So to stop the terror coming from over there at least we should kill most if not all of them. I suppose I do agree that attacking North Korea would be a bad idea but I think we should still attack Iran. If we destroy the source of the terror, the terror will eventually stop. It will take awhile of course but it would stop.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 07:32 pm |
Also when did Trump say any of that? Pls post a link to proof or something. No biased websites and news sites/stations. Ex: CNN
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 08:50 pm |
rjwiles, you sound like a retard. Families of terrorists are not automatically guilty by being genetically related. He didn't say, "bomb those that have been found to support their endeavor" or any of that. Just because their son was a shithead and an asshole doesn't mean they're at fault for it. If your kid killed someone else, does that mean you should go to jail too?
No, not all families of terrorists were the ones manufacturing and training them to become terrorists.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 09:01 pm |
That's not to mention that military members would be required to refuse carrying out those orders as they violate international laws and the geneva convention. Rjwiles, and you also support attacking Iran? Jesus, did you not learn anything from Iraq? Terrorists don't come from Iran, you dumbass.
The MAJORITY of them come from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. You wanna know why most muslims hate Saudi Arabia? Because they're funding and training terrorists with Wahhabism. 15 of the 19 hijackers in 9/11 were Saudis. Most terrorists cross over from Saudi Arabia into other countries.
Iranians stick to themselves and haven't committed any terrorist attacks against us. Go ahead and try to name one.
But, go ahead, let's keep funding and giving Saudi Arabia F-16s, Abrams tanks and many other military hardware while they fund extremists right within our country.
But really, let's attack Iran! They look like muslims and it rhymes with Iraq. That's where the terrorists come from!
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 09:17 pm |
I'm not trying to be pc here, I don't support political correctness either however I believe this thread is getting out of hand. This is a game forum not a political debate site. Debating and talking about real world politics will divide the game community, just like it divides real communities. I know this is a general forum, and you're free to debate and voice opinions/factual information or non-factual information. I also have my own views that could get me kicked off the forum if I said them, that's why I save it for facebook and youtube. It would be more fun to watch players attack eachother by going to virtual war from debating on a forum.
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 03:37 am |
The best option right now is anyone but Shillary Clinton.
She has enough blood on her hands without putting her in charge of our suicidal foreign policy.
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 04:31 am |
Johanas, so let's put the guy that would make hillary pale in comparison to her?
Your argument essentially boils down to, Trump just doesn't have the blood on his hands yet. And that's because he didn't have the opportunity to.
Perhaps you should consider why many muslims from that area of the world believes Hillary is the better option for stability in that region.
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 12:46 pm |
Lets be honest.
Muslims are butthurt because Trump wants to stop the mass immigration from areas with ties to terrorism.
It's a good idea IMO. We don't need to import any more trouble. We have plenty to deal with already.
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 08:50 pm |
With all due respect......yes this is a game forum. People are entitled to their political, religious, whatever views as long as they are respectful of others. Historically we have always had off game topics of discussions because it is interesting to see opinions of people from all over the world. The GENERAL section is allowed to have such discussions. The key is respect. You can state your view without being offensive.
I guess I like to see others' thoughts, due to my background of being in the news media. lol Or just that I'm nosey. ha ha ha ha
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 09:32 pm |
Well that's where I'm getting at, there is lack of respect. That is why I don't attempt to engage in these threads, I don't want to come off disrespectful even if I don't agree with someone elses views. Only once have I ranted offensively towards someone in the forum directly.
I also do not know at what point my language gets to the point where I could get kicked off the forum. I've had communication suspensions 4 times on xbox live due to being politically incorrect. Can't even write God in my bio on xbox without it being "offensive". Which is why I hate the direction we are moving in. The pussified generation, excuse me.
The saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" doesn't apply to my generation of youth. Which is why I despise people like Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. They're fascists.
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 09:59 pm |
I agree with you totally there, Zen, about the direction we are moving in. Pfft I tell people Merry Christmas, and they will LIKE it! lol I really don't think people are really offended, I think they just like protesting and creating drama, getting attention.
I should know, as I am the Queen of Drama in Simcountry history. :-D
I was more in line with that people should be able to have political discussions without name calling and being offensive that way. But you are right, politics and religion can get heated and real quick. But heat and passion are good things if done intelligently and right.
I think it is interesting to hear (or in our case, see) people's thoughts on topics and issues. :-)