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Andy
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 09:43Link
Wind farms
The way income from wind farms is showing on the financial pages is updated.
In recent days, income from windfarms served to reduce government cost. It caused problems on the income/cost of the country and in the computation of the financial index.
We have now added a line into the financial report, showing the income from wind farms separately.
Government cost does not include the income from wind farms any more.
The maintenance cost of wind farms remains part of government cost.
We might update it in the near future and show the maintenance cost of wind farms separately.
The computation of the financial index is corrected.
Wind Farm contarcts with the country where they reside
A major problem with wind farms contracts delivering their products to the country where they reside is resolved.
Due to an error, new wind farms were not delivered to the country but instead, sold on the
The way income from wind farms is showing on the financial pages is updated.
In recent days, income from windfarms served to reduce government cost. It caused problems on the income/cost of the country and in the computation of the financial index.
We have now added a line into the financial report, showing the income from wind farms separately.
Government cost does not include the income from wind farms any more.
The maintenance cost of wind farms remains part of government cost.
We might update it in the near future and show the maintenance cost of wind farms separately.
The computation of the financial index is corrected.
Wind Farm contarcts with the country where they reside
A major problem with wind farms contracts delivering their products to the country where they reside is resolved.
Due to an error, new wind farms were not delivered to the country but instead, sold on the
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Unsthable
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 14:47Link
I don't see it listed in your notes here, but additional change noticed between 8 hours ago and now:
Base monthly production of Wind Turbines corporations has reduced from 23 to 20.
Monthly supply consumption for Wind Turbines in Wind Farm corporations has increased from 25 to 30.
To use an example of the change, I have a country with 850 Wind Farms and 27 Wind Farm corps. At 100% production the country needs 67 Wind Turbine corporations to be supply stable for Wind Turbines. This morning, with no other changes to production considered, the requirement is now 84 Wind Turbine Corporations.
I'll be the first to admit this country is a bit of an extreme situation. At the same time all of these numbers had to be mined based on in game experience rather than update notes. The notes have said for a long time that there is an attempt to help the game's perpetual issue with shortages. This update actually works t
Base monthly production of Wind Turbines corporations has reduced from 23 to 20.
Monthly supply consumption for Wind Turbines in Wind Farm corporations has increased from 25 to 30.
To use an example of the change, I have a country with 850 Wind Farms and 27 Wind Farm corps. At 100% production the country needs 67 Wind Turbine corporations to be supply stable for Wind Turbines. This morning, with no other changes to production considered, the requirement is now 84 Wind Turbine Corporations.
I'll be the first to admit this country is a bit of an extreme situation. At the same time all of these numbers had to be mined based on in game experience rather than update notes. The notes have said for a long time that there is an attempt to help the game's perpetual issue with shortages. This update actually works t
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Unsthable
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 15:13Link
Also seemingly minor issue that becomes larger as the player grows where the Financial Index with Wind Farms is concerned. If the intent is to have the index balance out between the cost of Wind Farms/Turbines and the expense of them, it currently is falling short.
The income generated is based on market value Electric Power without any quality considerations. That is significant when held against electric power as a cost for the government having quality considered. For example I don't know the exact monthly power consumption of hospitals, but I know I have observed a meaningful increase in Health costs as the quality of my Electric Power has increased.
Since Finance Index matters in many areas of the game, most meaningfully in being a benchmark for Game Level requirements, it should stand to reason that if Wind Farms and everything about them are going to be a part of the index it should paint the whole picture. Either have t
The income generated is based on market value Electric Power without any quality considerations. That is significant when held against electric power as a cost for the government having quality considered. For example I don't know the exact monthly power consumption of hospitals, but I know I have observed a meaningful increase in Health costs as the quality of my Electric Power has increased.
Since Finance Index matters in many areas of the game, most meaningfully in being a benchmark for Game Level requirements, it should stand to reason that if Wind Farms and everything about them are going to be a part of the index it should paint the whole picture. Either have t
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Andy
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 15:59Link
There are changes in corporations from day one.
these changes are very small most of the time and they will keep coming.
we have increases hiring in corporations, we have increased the profitability of corporations, many times, over and over until they more than trippled.
i do not remeber any complaints about it.
we have created huge possibilities for very high profits by the imtroduction of wind farms.
I don't remember anyone saying that these profits are overdone.
we are adding features and will keep adding features.
I don't understand what the problem is on TA.
we added one time, one game month on TA in the past hours because we suspected an error.
It was not an error but TA ended up running one extra month.
TA skipped several game months in the past weeks due to start difficulties with a world with low numbers of population.
never heard anything from anyone.
As t
these changes are very small most of the time and they will keep coming.
we have increases hiring in corporations, we have increased the profitability of corporations, many times, over and over until they more than trippled.
i do not remeber any complaints about it.
we have created huge possibilities for very high profits by the imtroduction of wind farms.
I don't remember anyone saying that these profits are overdone.
we are adding features and will keep adding features.
I don't understand what the problem is on TA.
we added one time, one game month on TA in the past hours because we suspected an error.
It was not an error but TA ended up running one extra month.
TA skipped several game months in the past weeks due to start difficulties with a world with low numbers of population.
never heard anything from anyone.
As t
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Andy
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 16:09Link
Recent changes in the wind farms corporations may present an uptik in the need for raw materials but many other updates are reducing the need for such materials and as I said before, shortages are falling.
you can take one detail and draw conclusions but the numbers do not add up and the conclusion is wrong.
Building your own wind turbine corporations is probably essential and again, if you are not interested, leave that new energy market. it requires changes in your industry, economy. it requires large investments and if you think they are not profitable, do not do it.
you can take one detail and draw conclusions but the numbers do not add up and the conclusion is wrong.
Building your own wind turbine corporations is probably essential and again, if you are not interested, leave that new energy market. it requires changes in your industry, economy. it requires large investments and if you think they are not profitable, do not do it.
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Unsthable
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 16:19Link
I understand that you have to defend the work you do, dealing with criticism is an unfortunate reality that you have to deal with as a business owner. When mine started I had plenty of direct customer interaction that at times could be contentious l, which is why I try to remain relatively calm and polite with you.
A lot of your response unfortunately falls flat. Calling back on a ‘we made this change at this time and didn’t get any complaints’ is a hollow response. With so many of the changes to the game happening in the dark, there are many that I would assume people just don’t notice and chalk up to changes in country situation. I know I personally don’t realize the changes in multiple corp supply consumptions and outputs until I notice my spreadsheet that I maintain no longer adds up and I go through it finding what I have written down to compare to the games current status. Players s
A lot of your response unfortunately falls flat. Calling back on a ‘we made this change at this time and didn’t get any complaints’ is a hollow response. With so many of the changes to the game happening in the dark, there are many that I would assume people just don’t notice and chalk up to changes in country situation. I know I personally don’t realize the changes in multiple corp supply consumptions and outputs until I notice my spreadsheet that I maintain no longer adds up and I go through it finding what I have written down to compare to the games current status. Players s
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RoronoaDroagon
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 17:25Link
Thanks for fixing the Wind Farms Contract issue.
Keep it up ^^
Keep it up ^^
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Jiggle Billy
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 18:13Link
"Costs of maintenance
The cost of maintenance, both for government facilities and for the army have declined recently and will continue to decline with the current upgrade.
The actual cost also depends on the cost of products on the market but the long term trend is dwnward.
Shortages
Shortages continue on all worlds and many products show short supplies.
The situation is however improved and may improve further in the coming game months.
Shortages are not about to disappear but may become smaller. The process takes some time to materialize but the long term trend is for more balance on the market. "
I think your cost of defensive weapons maintenance cuts have gone too far or the corps need a re-balancing on supplies as the price cap cut has pushed them unprofitable. Defensive weapons maintenance is fairly difficult to manage due to market difficulties in their supplies which requires lots o
The cost of maintenance, both for government facilities and for the army have declined recently and will continue to decline with the current upgrade.
The actual cost also depends on the cost of products on the market but the long term trend is dwnward.
Shortages
Shortages continue on all worlds and many products show short supplies.
The situation is however improved and may improve further in the coming game months.
Shortages are not about to disappear but may become smaller. The process takes some time to materialize but the long term trend is for more balance on the market. "
I think your cost of defensive weapons maintenance cuts have gone too far or the corps need a re-balancing on supplies as the price cap cut has pushed them unprofitable. Defensive weapons maintenance is fairly difficult to manage due to market difficulties in their supplies which requires lots o
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Andy
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 20:28Link
Every reduction in the cost of maintenance was compensated by either a reduction in the materials used, or an increase in the number of products produced each month or both.
we kept all corporations withing the earning model they had before.
there is a gradual decline in the total size. this time less than 3%.
the reason for that is that these are very very large corporations that, as we discovered, are more difficult to keep stable.
by slightly reducing the size while keeping the earning capabilities we improve their stability.
It can fluctuate but should remain very profitable.
if you have examples to the contrary, please give me the details and I will look into it.
The earning model for these corporations has an expected profit level which is nearly 2 x higher than what is expected for a high tech services corporation.
This is at full production and can decline quickly if production is reduced.
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we kept all corporations withing the earning model they had before.
there is a gradual decline in the total size. this time less than 3%.
the reason for that is that these are very very large corporations that, as we discovered, are more difficult to keep stable.
by slightly reducing the size while keeping the earning capabilities we improve their stability.
It can fluctuate but should remain very profitable.
if you have examples to the contrary, please give me the details and I will look into it.
The earning model for these corporations has an expected profit level which is nearly 2 x higher than what is expected for a high tech services corporation.
This is at full production and can decline quickly if production is reduced.
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Jiggle Billy
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 23:26Link
@Andy, please look into Jiggle Defensive on White Giant, up until you changed the price cap 90+% of the Defensive weapons maintenance corps within were profitable, now 90+% are generating losses.
It looks like over all the enterprise is still profitable, but now less so and would be better off if the DWM corps were all closed and only sold the weapons, especially for the extra headaches of the required contract model and manual orders occasionally required.
The defensive, offensive, airforce, etc... maintenance corps are some of the hardest to manage due to limitations on the contract options and supply market conditions, yet the profitability is decreasing.
It looks like over all the enterprise is still profitable, but now less so and would be better off if the DWM corps were all closed and only sold the weapons, especially for the extra headaches of the required contract model and manual orders occasionally required.
The defensive, offensive, airforce, etc... maintenance corps are some of the hardest to manage due to limitations on the contract options and supply market conditions, yet the profitability is decreasing.
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Unsthable
All worlds
03 Oct 2023 23:55Link
@Andy On the Financial Index income, you say:
'As to the quality of electric power delivered by wind farms, we think that there is no need to take it into account.'
Can you please elaborate on why you take that position? You feel that product quality (and thus price) should apply for posted costs but not apply for posted income? I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around that logic if the intent of the Financial Index is to paint a true picture of the country's financial health.
Using my own country as an example, my current FI will balance out at 139.7 with reported income of 1022.37 and costs of 731.75, a significant portion of those costs being the electric power consumed by gov't facilities. Based on allowing quality to matter for cost but not for income, I am hard locked at a maximum peaceful game level 10 (the game has 16 levels) just right now. As I build more Wind Farms, with
'As to the quality of electric power delivered by wind farms, we think that there is no need to take it into account.'
Can you please elaborate on why you take that position? You feel that product quality (and thus price) should apply for posted costs but not apply for posted income? I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around that logic if the intent of the Financial Index is to paint a true picture of the country's financial health.
Using my own country as an example, my current FI will balance out at 139.7 with reported income of 1022.37 and costs of 731.75, a significant portion of those costs being the electric power consumed by gov't facilities. Based on allowing quality to matter for cost but not for income, I am hard locked at a maximum peaceful game level 10 (the game has 16 levels) just right now. As I build more Wind Farms, with
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Daniel Iceling
All worlds
04 Oct 2023 03:56Link
Andy,
The short version of what many players are trying to say, is that they want to be told when changes are made to the game, even if those changes are small.
There is a lot of guesswork, when players have to account for the possibility that something might have changed, without knowing what the change was.
Something like "Gamemaster reduced consumption of Electric Power in X corp type, from 1000 to 975 per game month. Update planned to go live at 11pm 6th Oct 2023 GMT (Greenwich Mean Time)" is a small change, but it's still worth telling players, so that they understand when they see shifts in their economies.
This is especially important for Tiny Atlas, since players have to produce or transport every item, they need to know when the consumption or production of an item changes, so they can plan their production and transportation properly.
The short version of what many players are trying to say, is that they want to be told when changes are made to the game, even if those changes are small.
There is a lot of guesswork, when players have to account for the possibility that something might have changed, without knowing what the change was.
Something like "Gamemaster reduced consumption of Electric Power in X corp type, from 1000 to 975 per game month. Update planned to go live at 11pm 6th Oct 2023 GMT (Greenwich Mean Time)" is a small change, but it's still worth telling players, so that they understand when they see shifts in their economies.
This is especially important for Tiny Atlas, since players have to produce or transport every item, they need to know when the consumption or production of an item changes, so they can plan their production and transportation properly.
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Unsthable
All worlds
04 Oct 2023 09:06Link
Speaking only for myself, Daniel hit the nail on the head. It can seem like piling on the GMs but at the end of the day all that’s being asked for is some level of communication and interaction. Nobody expects you to address every problem instantly and to respond to every idea by making changes. Players should absolutely be able to expect consistency and communication.
I say again, hanging your hat on the idea that you have made some changes that weren’t complained about is a poor tactic. If you’re at a store and they mess up your order, you may complain. Most, however, simply leave and don’t come back. The people responding here want your game to succeed, but for your business to succeed you must prioritize their entertainment and respect their time. You’re competing against every other game on the internet for our time and subscription.
Josias said it best. In the recent change
I say again, hanging your hat on the idea that you have made some changes that weren’t complained about is a poor tactic. If you’re at a store and they mess up your order, you may complain. Most, however, simply leave and don’t come back. The people responding here want your game to succeed, but for your business to succeed you must prioritize their entertainment and respect their time. You’re competing against every other game on the internet for our time and subscription.
Josias said it best. In the recent change
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Andy
All worlds
04 Oct 2023 10:13Link
Jiggle billy
we did not change any price cap in maintenance corporations.
we did not change any price cap in maintenance corporations.
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Jiggle Billy
All worlds
04 Oct 2023 17:11Link
@ Andy, on about September 28 the max price defensive weapons maintenance could sell for reduced, whether intentionally or not. I saw my corps suddenly drawing losses and looked at the charts to see if it had gone surplus and it hadn't, extreme shortage still but the market price dropped. I do not have a screen shot of the change, just a discord conversation in the WGA discord.
EDIT: This would be much easier to discuss if available data wasn't limited to only 2 game years, hopefully you have older logs to look back at.
EDIT: This would be much easier to discuss if available data wasn't limited to only 2 game years, hopefully you have older logs to look back at.
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Jiggle Billy
All worlds
04 Oct 2023 20:13Link
@Andy, figured out how to download older data. Here's a picture showing change:


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Jiggle Billy
All worlds
04 Oct 2023 20:14Link
Failed at upload


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Josias Jorvick
All worlds
06 Oct 2023 01:30Link
.
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Daniel Iceling
All worlds
06 Oct 2023 06:58Link
Andy,
"The maintenance cost of wind farms remains part of government cost.
We might update it in the near future and show the maintenance cost of wind farms separately."
I think this would be a great idea, and make it much clearer to players, how much their Wind Farms are costing to maintain.
"The maintenance cost of wind farms remains part of government cost.
We might update it in the near future and show the maintenance cost of wind farms separately."
I think this would be a great idea, and make it much clearer to players, how much their Wind Farms are costing to maintain.
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Andy
All worlds
06 Oct 2023 08:40Link
We plan to do this.
too many issues currently.
we will get to it.
too many issues currently.
we will get to it.
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Daniel Iceling
All worlds
06 Oct 2023 14:34Link
Andy,
I understand, it's not urgent. I was just providing feedback that I thought your proposal was a good idea.
I understand, it's not urgent. I was just providing feedback that I thought your proposal was a good idea.
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Andy
All worlds
06 Oct 2023 16:08Link
Yes.
thank you.
I can't wait to see income and cost on the smae line on the financial report.
thank you.
I can't wait to see income and cost on the smae line on the financial report.