| Sunday, August 7, 2016 - 04:47 pm |
Hi. I just started, and I'm fighting the automation.
I have a shortage of nurses, but it keeps building more hospitals (which shuts down the hospitals already built) *and* it keeps bumping down my education priorities for nurses.
Similarly for schools and teachers -- it bumps down the education priority of teachers and bumps up the education priority of university professors, but I have a university index of 133 already, so I don't need more.
Next, most of my corporations were producing the same thing, with shortages in the materials needed, so I spent coins to change what they produce, but the automation just shut it down the next month. I even picked one of the ones with full employment to change.
Finally, I can't seem to boost my high-tech engineers -- even if I put 60/120 education priority on them, the numbers stay even or drop. Is the automation doing this?
Are there reasons for the automation doing these things, or is it just stupid?
I am thinking of deleting my account and starting over -- does that work -- will I get everything from scratch again?
| Sunday, August 7, 2016 - 05:03 pm |
Quick follow-up question:
If the employment screen tells me I have so many workers employed, unemployed, and needed -- does "needed" mean total I need or the number I need in addition to what I have now?
| Sunday, August 7, 2016 - 05:14 pm |
Go to your country's page. Click Automation right next to settings near the top.
Uncheck "Education setup and development".
Uncheck "Move workers to other Professions"
Uncheck "Increase Employment and move workers to other professions"
Uncheck "Health-care sector setup"
Uncheck "Transportation sector setup"
And then click, "Save Automation Features"
| Sunday, August 7, 2016 - 05:38 pm |
Yes, I know I can, but I had questions I wanted answered to know if I should.
Is there a good reason I'm not seeing for these things, or is it just stupid?
| Monday, August 8, 2016 - 06:21 am |
Hmm, I don't see a "needed" in the employment page just employed, unemployed and total. Unless you're meaning "Needed for 100% Production" in your education priority page. If so that is how much more you need of that type of worker yes. Not the total.
With automation if you are on the game pretty often to check up on things and/or you understand all of the basics you should have all automation turned off besides "Automatic placing orders for products that your country needs." Of which you can change that in Trade > order strategy and quality.
Now with corporation supplies. You should have buying strategy of just under 100 or market price and have it raise a few % for every game month that supply is not delivered. Now since most supplies are short it will take a few months, even years with some products to come in. So I suggest placing a low water mark of 6-9 months with an order quantity of 12-24 months. My corporations are set up with the default 4 month low water mark 9 month order quantity and they almost never run short of supplies. That's because my order strategy for buying is start at 96 market price +6 per month supplies not delivered. Some people do 101 +5 to ensure quick delivery however some products may be in oversupply so you can lose money this way. Another method is to set your low water mark high like 12 months with a 24-36 month order however this can drain cash out of your corps and force your country/enterprise to send cash into them every once in a while which could surprise you when you log on and see a few hundred B SC$ missing.
In the end however it doesn't make a difference what you do. If you're still pretty new and want to restart your account go for it, however you can still save yourself if you follow this advice. Also if you really need some help tell me what country/world you're on. I may be able to exchange some workers for you. I'm currently on all worlds besides KB.
Edit: With high tech engineers it may be that your corporations are upgrading and constantly needing more engineers keeping your engineer count low. Also no matter how much you put your education priority on them it really depends on your education index and country growth.
| Monday, August 8, 2016 - 07:52 am |
Thank you for the advice. I will keep that in mind.
However, I'm not sure how this is relevant. The corps I spent coins on are gone -- closed down -- and I don't even know why it happened. I would restart to get those coins back.
| Monday, August 8, 2016 - 11:05 pm |
Do governments need to order at best price, or can they make offers like corporations can?
| Monday, August 8, 2016 - 11:19 pm |
I turn off as much automation as possible.
There are several options in corp strategies, from ordering any quality to ordering a particular quality. There are also price strategies but if the commodity is short, you will end up paying more than "standard" price for it.
Just remember that better quality of commodities make better quality produces which sell for more.
| Tuesday, August 9, 2016 - 03:57 am |
Country products are bought at market price. They can not be set to buy at specific prices.( unless you manually buy everything which isn't worth doing. )Keep in mind everything your country buys besides government consumption the population pays for back into the country. In other words things like food, cars, entertainment, computers, utilities and other civilian consumption products are paid for by the population. They pay the country for these products which the country is responsible for providing its citizens. So you do not lose any money when you buy these products. The only thing you do pay for that is never paid back is your country infrastructure upkeep like transportation and water maintenance, medical products, and military products. They are also in fact a part of your monthly cost on the finance page for these indexes. So if your country orders higher quality products like road maintenance your transportation costs will go up. If you buy higher quality medical products your health costs go up. The quality of these products however seem to not effect the indexes they're a part of, so I buy them at 120q.
This is why, from what I've seen and what I do I buy all civilian consumption products at 300q and government consumption products at 120q. With the exception of airforce, defensive, offensive, naval, and military base maintenance which I buy manually for 330q. Unless the salary of my workers is lower than the quality of products that they consume. Then I buy lower quality products they can afford. However my people are happy with their 400 salary. So they get 300q products.
I tend to buy large quantities of surplus products as well when they're on sale. Always nice to have extra if you can afford it.
| Tuesday, August 9, 2016 - 07:19 am |
I restarted and the game again shut down corporations, even though I just needed a few months for things to settle.
Is there any way to prevent a corporation from being shut down?
Finally, some of the automation seems impossible to turn off -- I've seen it reassign workers, even if it is turned off, due to "beginner" reasons.
The reassigning of workers seems to be what is getting me in trouble.
| Tuesday, August 9, 2016 - 07:37 am |
I don't know how the game is shutting down your corporations. I've only had corporations shut down because I sold too much into them at once making them go like -100 billion in cash which made them shut down. So the only way I can think of is they're negative in cash or the game shut them down automatically.
| Tuesday, August 9, 2016 - 04:18 pm |
Currently, the only reasons the game will destroy corporations:
1. Bankruptcy. The corporation has huge debt. This is by far the main reason. You need to make sure it is hiring at 100%, check your education, and check if the population can sustain the number of corporations in the country.
2. Far less frequent: rebellions.
If the country economy is in a grave mismatch with education and health, salaries etc. the population may rebel and in the process, destroy a corporation.
Earth quakes and wars but then it is not "the game" destroying them but your enemy..
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 04:15 am |
Thu Nov 4, 3731 The corporation Boulder Machine Parts in The First Circle has been closed because the market value and utilization are too low and the corporation is making losses. 259320 employees were fired.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 04:20 am |
None of my corporations have any debt, and the message says nothing about debt or rebellion.
So, yes, the game is shutting down my corporations for me. However, it sounds like this might be the beginner automation that you cannot turn off right away.
I have it unchecked, and it is still reassigning workers.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 06:10 am |
What's your country's name and the world you're in?
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 06:33 am |
"The First Circle" in GR. The same thing happened before I reset my account. It might be a beginner thing.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 08:34 am |
Close the corps that are unprofitable. This will send workers to other corps that needs workers to become more profitable. Your main goal is having the most monthly revenue as you can, not the most corps. Also, you need corps that produces things that are in need.
Close Loyall Defensive Military Airport.
Close Aspam Navy Missile Interceptor
They're both shitty corps to have. They'll provide Papora Factory Maintenance and Menca Mobile Devices the workers they need to become even MORE profitable. Not only that, but the CEO corps in your country needs workers too.
You should see some more profit and monthly revenue doing this.
And your corps are closing because they're not profitable and they're losing money. At some point, they run out of cash in their corps so they have to close. Otherwise you can do some cash transfer to keep them afloat.
With that being said, get your education, health, and transportation index to 120 ASAP.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 08:36 am |
Get your education index up, all of them, not just the university, but high school, and elementary so that they produce workers your corps need.
I highly suggest you turn on Beginners protection for your country.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 03:30 pm |
You are not only insulting, but wrong. I don't care how much experience you have -- you are wrong.
It doesn't matter if I turn on beginner's protection or not, since it is on no matter what I set it to. Then, it screws things up and won't let me staff my corporations because it reassigns my workers.
The closing corps aren't the bad ones -- machine parts.
The country is 24 hours old. It takes time to get things under control. Not only that, but your advice is wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
You are wrong.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 03:41 pm |
You know what's the best advice to bring up my education index? Wait.
My component indices are at 120, except for highschools, which are 116, and the remaining highschools on order will bring them to 120. The index is much lower than that because the overall index only moves so much per month, and it needs time to equalize.
Beginner's protection is the problem. It is keeping me from getting nurses, teachers, and high-tech engineers I need to staff things. I can't turn it off -- I can uncheck it, but it is forced on for the beginning.
I don't care about profit in the short term -- I care about fixing the fundamentals first, like some basic health care. The problem is getting the people to staff the corps, which is difficult because the automation is *untraining* professionals.
You are right about one thing and one thing only -- those corps may be bad even when fully staffed, but since losing those upgrades are permanent, I wanted to bring up my staffing levels to see how that affects profitability.
New corps tend not to be profitable with no upgrades (or more accurately -- their initial profit tends to be eaten up by the cost of those first 4 upgrades), so it seemed worthwhile to take some time to see how they do before irreversibly closing them.
I highly suggest you stop trolling the beginners forums if you are going to spread misinformation.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 05:00 pm |
That was an interesting read. I hope it wasn't geared towards me because I do try my best to help and give correct information. I've made a few guides and try to answer all questions I can on what I do know. I don't suggest people building or closing corporations. I do however give some advice on what corporations to build, and don't condemn people for freely building what they want.
With the beginners automation I don't remember what it was like for me when I started a year ago. When I started I was free for a week or two then bought membership and starting going up the war levels for gc. The beginners automation may be acting different in your case. I don't know how that stuff works. Hopefully it will only last for a little while. I guess all you can do is not spend gc on corps for now until the game stops acting like it does. Possibly going up a few game levels might stop the automation after you turn it off.
Honestly with upgrades, I've built thousands and thousands of corporations in my time on simcountry and I don't worry about the cost of those upgrades, and I never boost my corporations upgrades with gc.( except for a few weapons corps )
If you're having a big problem with corporations closing down you can manually send in more money into them. via Corporations -> Manage -> profit cash and debt. Where you can transfer a set amount of cash into them or set a cash level.( max 80B ) Now if you do this the corporations may automatically send cash back out. This has happened in my countries but not my enterprises.
If this really is a beginners protection issue, I can't help you on that. The only thing I could possibly suggest is to let the automation happen until you can do something about it. I do suggest going up game levels asap, that might allow you to keep automation off. I don't know for sure. Also in the long run you will be fine if this keeps up for a few weeks at most.
Now the index level really doesnt matter besides game level and welfare. The only suggestion I make with that is to not go to extreme index levels like 200 education or 150 health, it hurts the country by over educating and you will end up with a country that has a lot of older population that doesnt work and needs social security, this also reverses population growth in the long run.
With education priorities, I've had the same problem before a few times where I change the priorities and they revert to previous settings. This was with automation off. Automatic building of hospitals is a big issue that should be addressed because hospitals are expensive when you're first starting out. Most of your money goes to corporations when you first start out, wasting billions on hospitals will hurt you in the short term, but not the long run.
Edit in response to SeizeForce:
Corporations in a country or enterprise will be automatically supplied with cash when they are low on cash. Countries and enterprises automatically send money in corporations that are maing losses. Same with taking money out. In countries when corporations are making high profits with low tax/profit transfer they will send money back into the country when they hit their cap. Enterprise corporations will keep storing money until you manually take it out. The only way I can see a corporation losing a lot of money at once to the point they close is if they buy a lot of supplies all at once with an already low amount of money. Corporations do not slowly run out of cash. They will be resupplied if the country has cash to supply them. This is an automatic protection feature that I support. Only public corporations you can not send in or take money out of because you're not the only owner of the corporation.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 06:41 pm |
@Zen: Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. I was upset at being told to turn on the beginner automation.
I do want to make it clear that the corps being shut down are still flush with cash. They didn't have any debt, and there was no rebellion. The message I quoted above states that the utility was low (due to staffing issues in the first 24 hours of the game) and there were losses (due to staffing issues...). That nobody seems to be familiar with this suggests that this might be a beginner automation issue that doesn't occur later in the game.
The automation is so bad that it will build hospitals when there are already some on order, which causes hospitals to be shut down because there aren't enough nurses.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 10:14 pm |
And now closing one of my unprofitable corporations caused one of my more profitable ones to close automatically at the next update.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 10:37 pm |
Why are you upset at being told to turn on the beginner automation?
Your country was fine until you fucked it up and made it even worse. Like how incompetent can you get where you make a country so bad that beginner automation would be an improvement?
There's a list of 300 best performing presidents, but there should also be a list of 300 worst performing presidents so you can land at the top of the list for that.
Maybe perhaps you'll go down in history as the worst president ever and then be shown as an example of what NOT to do.
| Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 10:41 pm |
@Zen isn't that if you have automatic cash transfer on?
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 04:03 am |
@SeizeForce Please get out of this thread and stop trolling me.
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 04:04 am |
@Zen Do you see what I have to deal with?
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 06:02 am |
@SeizeForce you shouldn't be insulting players. Even if they're in the wrong attacking someone who just wants help isn't what you should do. Karat is facing an issue I had faced myself a few times. Even now my countries randomly once in a while change little things I don't understand. I and many other players are trying to get more people into this game, and even if it creates more competition for me it is worth it. It is better to help new people so that they stay and become another trade partner than be rude and/or ignore their questions and make them leave. Capitalism at its finest. If you're trying to help someone be understanding and pretend you're them. Don't just assume they're stupid. Also don't tell someone exactly what they should do, even though Aries did that to me pretty much lol but still. People are free to do what they want.
@Karat, it is the very beginning you shouldn't worry too much about the automation honestly. It should simply stop after a few game levels or days of playing. Maybe after you stop getting your population and cash log in boosts. Also I've never been blatantly insulted before on simcountry yet, so I can't relate to that. However if someone does, I won't be one to hesitate attacking their assets directly. Make war not hate.
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 03:25 pm |
Well, I conquered a country before getting level 2, so it took longer to get my health index average up. But now that I have it, I got level 2 this morning, and I already have most of the requirements for level 3.
With the automation, I need to leave a margin of extra unemployed workers since the automation is reassigning managers to low-level workers, causing me to be short of managers -- I'm checking the population totals, since it is telling me that it reassigned workers but not how many.
Also, the automation is ignoring my sale strategy and using 100% + value of goods. It did give me a message that it thought I was setting the price too high, though. (I saw that all the stock was selling quickly, so I kept bumping up the price each month.)
Finally, I followed your advice and bumped up the quality of the consumer goods (by looking at the cash log and making a list of goods the public was reimbursing me for), but it complained that the consumer goods I ordered were too high quality for beginners.
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 03:29 pm |
Slightly off the topic of automation, but what would you advise regarding contracts?
I (in theory) should be able to get more money for selling on the market, but I get more score by selling locally or in a common market. However, more money = more score as well. What are your thoughts?
It also took me a while to figure out how to make a contract between two corporations -- I seem to have to pick the country it is in first and then I can pick the corp from a dropdown. Would it make sense to have a common market for myself, so that I can trade between my two countries and/or enterprise (when I make one)?
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 07:01 pm |
When in a common market you can offer and accept contracts on the common market page, this is a thousand times faster/easier than going to every corporation and making a contract manually. Your corporations sell for a slightly higher price when you're selling in the common/local market, however this is a double-edged sword. If your corporations buy off of the common market they'll be paying more for their supplies. Also you will not get a set quality of supplies. You will get the supply quality that other corporations in the common market are selling. It is good to set up local market contracts towards your country, only for corporations that do not make government products. It's also good to sell your goods into the local market as well. This is because even though you're paying a slightly higher price for those products, your population is still paying for the products that you're selling from your corporations. Productivity and cost increase slightly, but I believe productivity increases further than cost. I believe in maximizing productivity over the production/consumption ratio. In other words I'm not worried about cost as much as productivity. Which is why I pay my workers 400 salary. I haven't been using common market/local market effectively, but looking at other countries that do they seem to be making more profit in their corporations. When they're selling into the common market, but buying off the international market. I see players with a better finance index than me, but at the same time my productivity is much higher than theirs with the same population and number of corporations. They have much lower costs of education, health, and social security because of lowered wages. However I have much more income tax and corporate output due to better corporate welfare. I also gain more investment opportunity in the stock market and a more wealthy population, which increases consumption. I thank capitalism. You're still new with a small country so you shouldn't buy higher quality products yet. That was my mistake for telling you that. There are also some things that the game doesn't allow free players to change.
There are many ways that you can run your economy and it all depends on preference. You can also run on a privatized economy and allow a bunch of enterprise corps into your country while you're still learning. That's what I did when I started, but now I only build my own corporations and don't allow foreign enterprise corporations into my countries. Enterprise corporations I believe also sell for a higher price from state corporations. So if you do own an enterprise I would advise building corporations within your own empire.
For score your common and local market will give you a very very big score increase when you commit a lot of your contracts into it. This effects your score much more than your finance index. So if you're going for a higher score join a large active common market and sell/buy from it. You can always cancel contracts and draw back from the common market if you don't like its effects on your country. If you make a common market that only includes your own countries/enterprise it would be best to sell your consumption products to yourself. I however believe it is better to be in a large common market where you can sell your goods to a lot of countries for more profit. Keep in mind when you sell with contracts your income doesn't show on the corporation page, you can see the profit made by looking at the profit cash and debt page.
Edit: For a good example of very high productivity look at Candinnalm on LU. For a good example of high profit look at Casual Industries on LU. Sadly Casual Industries has his finances secret however, but I know he uses low wages. These are both good examples. My countries on fearless blue Zenovian State of Rapture, and Zenovian State of Echo are okay examples as well and both hit top finance rank on FB when they don't have a lot of weapons in them. Right now they're not going their best because I have low health index to try to lower the population age, which decreases the welfare by a lot.( 40 points )My main Zenovian State of Infinity is still young( but the largest country in my empire ), but shes doing pretty good.
| Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 07:42 pm |
Can you confirm that it is possible to sell goods for more than market price * quality? It seems to be doing that no matter what I set it to. I can't tell if that's a beginner limit or the game not behaving the way it is documented.
Contracts say they have to be at market price * quality, which is the same thing I am getting now, so I'm not sure I understand why there would be a difference.
How does this affect productivity? I'm not seeing that in the documentation.
Also, my local CEOs only offer 100% salary -- the cheapskates.
| Friday, August 12, 2016 - 06:19 pm |
There is a possibility to sell at a higher price but it is rare.
For every offer you make, there must be a buyer for a deal to take place.
I don't think many would like to pay more than market price * quality
so don't count on it. find a setting that is reasonable and have it run automatically and don't waist time on it.
it is much more important to sell everything than the extra several percentage points on the price.
| Monday, August 29, 2016 - 04:40 pm |
Hi not being rude or anything. I have been playing for 2 weeks now and have not got into these problems but then i have not built any military or taken another country. I was wondering if the problem is that. I looked in the beginners documentation and item 7 says 7. Supporting new players and Countries in Difficult conditions [ top ]
Some players, most of them playing for a short period, have difficulties in balancing and expanding their economy. The reasons may vary; the results are similar. The support functions are intended as a way to prevent the economies of these countries from falling apart.
In most cases, the economy of a new country runs smoothly and generates profits.
However, some new presidents start massive purchasing of weapons and ammunition that can result in very high spending. Large numbers of people in the country are then joining the growing army, reducing the number of available workers.
Such countries may end up with unbalanced education, low income and very high cost. This extends into high cost of social security, low income, financial shortages, high debt and eventually it can lead to bankruptcy.
The support measures in Simcountry do not provide free cash to any countries or corporations. Instead, they will help such countries move in the right direction and help them to build a healthy economy.
If the financial situation is deteriorating, debt is high and unemployment too. One of the support functions checks the education to discover shortages and may make small correction in the form of natural flow of workers into other professions, and reduce these shortages. The changes are small and unlikely to make a very large difference. However, a sequence of monthly changes will over time help to reduce unemployment, and production in corporations may increase.
Another function checks unemployment in the country and employment levels in corporations, and if it concludes that the country can have another corporation without causing major shortages of workers, it might add one corporation.
This too will not cause major changes but will in time improve the economy.
Two other functions check the financial situation. If the level of debt is considered too high, it forces a reduction of salaries. One function will reduce country salaries and the other function will do the same in corporations where debt is high and the corporations are losing money because of these high salaries.
The reduction in salaries may return some corporations to profitability or at least reduce their losses. It will also reduce the cost of all government functions and the losses countries make.
Salaries can be reduced to very low levels and countries and corporations may find themselves in a third world income levels. The main objective of these measures is to protect countries and corporations against themselves and help them to return to profitability.
Taxes in corporations can also be forced to higher levels in case the country is in a very bad financial situation and makes severe losses each month.
Corrections are always limited in size and have effect over time.
All the corrections mentioned here do not create wealth or make any supported countries and corporations into major successes. They are triggered when the country or a corporation are close to bankruptcy.
Support functions do not intervene in countries that do not have major problems and there are no interventions in countries run by experienced players.
i wonder if this is what is happening as automation helps your country settle down at the beginning of the game. Just a thought.
| Tuesday, August 30, 2016 - 08:18 am |
"Can you confirm that it is possible to sell goods for more than market price * quality? It seems to be doing that no matter what I set it to. I can't tell if that's a beginner limit or the game not behaving the way it is documented."
this was one of the biggest reasons I didn't come back to the game, after a enforced absence. It used to be, if you set your prices too high, the game would still sell them on the market, for what the game thought you could get for them. Not retain them, and drop the price, as per your chosen settings. If this continues to be the case, I will in all probability be complaining about it bitterly in these Hallowed Halls. If you are wanting to raise your income per sale, don't forget to figure out the ASQ on your corps. (Average Supply Quality. There are things you can skimp on like Factory Maintenance Units).
Sorry for my tardiness in replying. I've been busy on both sides of the screen, and wanted to get my feet a little wet.
If you don't plan on warring right away, the best bet is to raise your indexes slowly. Not sure if that was a problem. But each school etc. needs workers. If you are building them at a high rate, the country will prioritize that if you have your corporate pay scale set below government. More workers leave the corp to staff the government, and you start a chain reaction.
Corporate salary should be set below government salary. Some folks favor a 2/3 ratio, the way it is set up. Some folks go for different ones. WildEyes wrote a great guide a long time, it's still in the forums. Some of the info is a bit dated, but it's a good starting point, if you are wanting to brush up on the basics. (WildEyes Guide to Leaving.) And Aries has written quite a lot of good advice.
If you are pulling other workers in from abroad, make sure to keep the infrastructure coming... just watch the ages of the folks you are recruiting. If any particular class seems out of whack, leave it. That get old together thing only applies to folks ya love :P
| Thursday, September 1, 2016 - 04:38 am |
Hi! I've started in the game three days ago and I am stuck with one of the major problems that karat reported: my corporations are all being shut down although I am putting a lot of effort in setting the correct education priorities. (Yun, I did not fight yet so I don't think this is the problem)
And it is closing companies that seemed to be in good shape. If it is a mechanism intended to help, it is not helping at all. It should be just turned off.
By the way, I was a premium player and have had up to five countries and an enterprise about 4 years ago. At that time I spent A LOT of time building up corporations in a whole supply chain model, with fixed contracts among themselves and etc. And then I went out in a month vacation and when I got back to play the game again, it had shut down most of my corporations, even then all countries had a lot of money available to cover for any losses.
I got so pissed of that I left the game the same day, saying I would never play it again.
Then I wanted to give it another chance (because I really enjoyed it) however if the game still have this f... "bug" around, I am really thinking if it really is worth of another try...
| Thursday, September 1, 2016 - 04:39 pm |
Well, I better watch all of this, I keep running out of that stuff to! ( except im running out of senior doctors and doctors not nurses
| Thursday, September 1, 2016 - 04:40 pm |
I also have a problem, My military groups all offensive are out of troops and they wont re produce, What do I do?!
| Thursday, September 1, 2016 - 05:39 pm |
Aglfren: Generally it is not a good idea to set up all your corps to supply each other. It sounds good to be self sufficient, but you pay more for supplies that way and still get less for what you sell when you produce it. I know that sounds counter intuitive but the econ masters all seem to agree it is true.
Quiet: If you mean you don't have enough officers or soldiers, they come from MLM (Med Level Managers) and MLW (Med Level Workers).
| Thursday, September 1, 2016 - 06:39 pm |
Yun: The game absolutely does give cash to beginners -- in two different forms:
1) If you look under financial statement, you will see a line item called beginners income booster. It starts high and declines over time. Many countries would be running debts if not for that.
2) There is a cash login bonus for beginners.
As for the automation not doing anything, take a look at "all logging" report on the screen you get when you press the "automation" button at the top (next to newspaper). It may be doing more than you think.
My country was ranked #2, had ~95% employment, and was pulling a large income (not counting the beginner's booster), and the automation was still reassigning workers. This will stay on, even if you switch it off. The documentation says that this stays on for beginners in their first year.
The initial automation slowly builds schools and hospitals until you reach a target. However, the automation does not check that you have the staff for them, so it will build them and then instantly destroy them due to not having the workers. This can be exacerbated when you crank up the number of teachers and nurses, only to have the automation reassign the workers away from those professions.
Finally, it is a matter of luck if your starter country has the right number of corporations for the workers you have. If the number of workers you need for 100% employment of all corporations exceeds the total number of workers you have in the country, you are on a doomed course where the automation will close corporations for you (seemingly at random), and there is nothing you can do about it other than shut down the corporations you like the least.
| Thursday, September 1, 2016 - 06:42 pm |
Personally, I sell for ~ 400-500% of market price. Or at least it's set to do so. It actually sells for precisely market * quality no matter what I set it to.
It also sells out quickly -- only the one company that now has an oversupply in the market doesn't sell out near instantly.
I'm pretty much convinced that the system ignores any requests to sell at a price higher than market * quality.
| Thursday, September 1, 2016 - 06:45 pm |
zentrino: I've heard that argument before, but I can find nothing in the documentation to back that up.
Not to mention, my profits jumped through the roof when I tried it. So, it certainly wasn't true for me.
Why do you say you pay more for supplies but get less when you sell?
| Thursday, September 1, 2016 - 07:33 pm |
zentrino: I did that about 4 years ago. I would not know how much the trade rules changed from there.
However, at that time, I had a few corporations that were my "core business", and others that were there to make sure that the core business corps would have enough raw materials, in time and for a good price. The support corps did not give that much money, however the core corps were much more lucrative.
Point is not pricing, but having all the supplies you need just in time, specially the ones that are out of market.
Problem is, if you spend a lot of time building up this supply channel model, you surely would not want the automated rules to mess with it!
| Thursday, September 1, 2016 - 11:34 pm |
I am not the econ master so I am not sure I can explain why. I believe on a contract, you just pay whatever the going rate is times quality. When you buy supplies on the market, you can set a price below market and slowly raise it to get a better deal than the current rate. This means you pay more for the supplies on the contract usually.
When you sell on the market, you can set the price to be a % higher than market and then add quality. This gets a better price than the current rate. So when you sell on a contract you make less usually.
Use contracts and common markets for a score boost if you are going for #1 for gc bonus for the month.
At least, I believe this is the conventional wisdom for the gods.
| Friday, September 2, 2016 - 03:02 am |
I'll put some of my own input if that is okay.
I used to sell my products at quality +200 however that did not make a difference compared to me selling at best price. So, I sell at best price. The game does not want you to sell at 500% market price because if you could do that, everyone else will too and they will be getting too much money for the product. Also, the quality that you put on the market is not directly bought from other countries/enterprises. Yes, you might be selling your product at 140q but my country buys at 300q. I still pay for the 300 quality product. You still get the money for the 140q product.
Same with the other way. You can make a product at 330q, sell it on the market. You will get the market price x quality. However I can buy that product, indirectly, from the world market for 120q and will still buy your supply and pay the price for 120q. Not 330q. So when players buy from the world market, they buy at the quality they request. Any supply is just supply. It isn't quality of supply. If there are 300 million 120q construction on the market and 1.2 billion 300q construction on the market. It doesnt matter. I want 200q construction. I buy 1.5 billion construction at 200q. Your construction is sold for its price. I pay for the quality I requested.
How do I test this? Simple. I contract hundreds of thousands of precision bombs to myself. They are around 280q. I sell all of them on the market and buy them back at the same time at 330q. I still get 330q bombs while selling my 280q bombs. I only pay for the quality difference.
This has nothing to do with self supplying my corps, just why you can't sell products for 5x market price. Also in my personal experience not contracting my supplies is more profitable than contracting. Why, because my corporation pays for the quality of product it gets, and gets that quality. Instead of the 215 quality I REQUEST from the market. Corporations do not need supply quality over 215. If it is more than 215 you are paying too much for too high of a quality. Why is this? Because the maximum quality product you can produce I believe is just over 330q. You can achieve 330q with 215q supplies and 250/250 upgrades from a public corporation. Supplying yourself would give you supplies well over 215q and it would simply be too expensive. If you use a high low water mark and a good buying strategy you will never fall short on supplies. The only reason you should be increasing your supply quality is if you have a weapon/ammo corporation, contracted to yourself and you are trying to get the maximum quality out of that corporation. Where profit does not matter. I do this with Land Based Cruise Batteries and any weapon that can not be upgraded within a unit.( nuclear weapons and ammo -subs. LBCB )
Edit: You can still achieve a profitable supply income from your own corporations however the corporations themselves would have to produce 215 quality products. Which is extremely low quality for upgraded corporations. I don't think it would be as profitable as just having them all sell to the world market. However supplying your country consumption with some of your corporations can be beneficial, because the population is paying for the products they consume at the price you buy them from your own corporations. You're using your workforce to produce your own consumption. The corporations still give their profit to the country because they are owned by the State, and you get more money from your population buying them. So you are essentially getting the income tax, worker salaries, products, and sales from the population. This is a win for everyone.
| Friday, September 2, 2016 - 04:27 pm |
The products that all countries buy on the world market is matched up with other products of the same type, and that it what you receive. If you order 1000 of a given product at quality 300, you'd receive an order of 1000 where the average quality is 300. And therein lies the problem.
(It's the same reason I got so exasperated I couldn't see straight. Not I'm not aware if this still the case. I'm not really going to try it out, as I don't want to go blind with rage, again.)
From several years ago, and several years before that etc:
One would expect that if no one wanted to buy your product at hugely inflated prices, no one would buy it. And it would sit in your corporation, as product offered, but not sold. Unfortunately, since the game needs that product in order to smooth out the purchases of all orders, it takes it anyways. And since you are not in the range of what it considers a good buy, it gives you the price the game decides is fair - the best price. (although to be fair, I think there is a bit of wiggle room there. I seem to remember a few months of being over best price in a couple of products - and it's a sheer pain to figure out, since not all corps making that product shared in those instances. Ran out of asymmetrical matches I suppose.)
Letting a corporation tank might alert the player there is a problem, when he has multiple years production sitting in the warehouse gathering dust. There are even reasons why that would be desirable at times from the player's perspective. But that should be the player's choice, not an arbitrary choice by the GM so his game engine works. If the game engine can't do the job without cheating the players, it needs to be overhauled. I understand the GM wanting to stabilize things. Players love to fold, spindle, and mutilate any thing that can be used to their advantage. That's our job, so to speak.
Either let the corporation spiral down and close etc. Or change the amount that could be charged per unit on potential sales. If the amount a particular product can be offered for is so important to maintaining the world economy, it might be better to take the player completely out of the loop. Like running The Sims with maximum free will plus. Give us something different to focus on. Like instead of the price a particular commodity is getting, the desirability of a particular corporation's commodity by the consumer. Thus we are still affecting the market, to an extent, but not driving it into the ground on every parse phase in the game.
Another benefit to supplying your own country consumption, being out of the market gluts when folks dump several thousands of months worth of those products from raiding C3's, and stockpiling from long positions on the market, on their own business cycle. You' avoid getting shorthauled on selling abroad during those times. Your supply corps are still maintaining a profit, smaller, but more stable. And they stay utilized - Zen's Income Tax.
| Friday, September 2, 2016 - 09:52 pm |
So, let me get this straight. The world market does not keep track of quality -- when selling, you simply get more money and then the quality disappears, and when buying, you simply pay more money and the desired quality appears. Also, the buying and selling strategies make no difference.
Contracting goods to yourself does matter in that it causes you to buy at the same quality as the goods sold. However, usually that quality to too high to be of use in the manufacturing process, so the extra quality is wasted and too much money is spent for no benefit. One exception is country consumption, since the public reimburses you for the price paid, so you get a good quality rating for essentially free.
Is that it?
| Saturday, September 3, 2016 - 01:18 am |
Pretty much. The GM will have to confirm that one with quality in the world market but I believe what I see. I think it would take too much processing for the current game engine to compute the quality of every single product from every single corporation selling to the world market. I think it would be much easier to simply give the income based on the quality sold to the corporations and then take quality out of the equation when in the world market. If quality was kept players will have more trouble getting the quality of products requested. Yes, when you buy products it is multiple orders that average out to the quality needed, however it would be very hard if everyone wanted 180-215q supplies for their corporations when most player owned corporations produce 250+ quality products. Most c3 corporations produce 220-230 quality products. Almost no corporations produce 120 quality products. Unless they had no upgrades. Which all c3 corporations auto upgrade I believe, so very very little corporations will be 100/100.
So in my observation, you are not being paid directly from other players when selling on the world market. You are paid directly by selling on the common and local markets. The game itself is paying you based on the quality you supply and the overall market situation. I haven't seen this before in the forum, so it is controversial. GM, if I may request. Please tell us who pays our corporations.
When I look at recent sales it says Chemicals on Fearless Blue Market.
| Saturday, September 3, 2016 - 08:42 pm |
I would be more then happy to eat my hat if wrong.
But if you are correct, then there is absolutely no excuse for products being sold at or near best price when you offered at the maximum allowable price, and a per centage drop per month when not sold. They still disappear, and you still receive what the game thinks you should have offered them for in the first place.
As far as the number of calculations, ever see the game stuck for several hours on the last day of the game month? We have a low population base.
| Wednesday, September 7, 2016 - 05:50 pm |
To return to the topic:
I have automation turned off. Both beginner's setup and the ones underneath. Education is still reassigning workers as per all logging. Numbers needed for 100 per cent production is 0 in all categories. Lowest education index is 160+.
Hope this helps in figuring out the order stuff is applied in.
| Wednesday, September 7, 2016 - 06:59 pm |
Several of my countries do the same thing. It seems they mostly reset the education priorities on teachers and professors. It is annoying because my education index is plenty high and I don't need a priority of 12-15 for those categories. It only seems to happen in a few countries though and not always the same ones. I find myself checking education priorities every time I log on just to make sure.
| Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 05:57 pm |
"So, let me get this straight. The world market does not keep track of quality -- when selling, you simply get more money and then the quality disappears, and when buying, you simply pay more money and the desired quality appears."
If that was the case, all orders from the world market would be supplied at exactly the Quality you requested. Sadly, that is not the case. You can try it for yourself, by placing smaller orders in high use products, like precision bombers. Or you can review your recent purchases in trade. Several times, I've received lower average quality then requested for smaller orders. I'm of the opinion that this only affects smaller orders, as the larger orders are filled first - note I have absolutely nothing to back that up. Yet.
"Also, the buying and selling strategies make no difference." Only true beyond a certain narrow range. The game really needs to either let the player tank a corporation by having it retain products that no one wants to buy at that price, or lower the cap it can be sold at.
"So in my observation, you are not being paid directly from other players when selling on the world market."
I believe you are correct Zen. And therein lies the problems. The game collects all orders. And then parcels them out in sales. Much like the specialist in the stock exchange. If players alone were the determination, we wouldn't have any kind of market. However, game intervention is too heavy when it steals the products for a lesser price then desired. If those corporations do not sell their products, and have on reduction in price, they'll eventually go out of business. If they do have a reduction per month in price, eventually they will be in range to sale. And thus, no long term effects. Only bubbles.
The whole rising quality thing is a large issue. I believe that is where the injected amounts of supplies come from, to stabilize this, as your observation about c3 corps quality upgrades is correct. Personally, I'd love to see the secondary market of the goods that are injected into the game have a real presence. Just like small businesses in the real world. Have them take a slice of employment percentage in countries. And provide income in the form of taxes, etc.
| Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 06:02 pm |
Fighting the automation on a different front.
All automation in slave countries turned off, except receive advice. Slave countries are still building corporations if I'm not online every game month to remove executives/high tech executives etc. Education priorities set to 0 in those countries/categories.
Question: Does the game automatically injection numbers into other worker categories? I'd just as soon set HT Engineers, for example, to 0 and keep them removed. That way I can at least change their profession, and keep the population gainfully employed, rather then worry about eventually transferring them back to a slave country just before releasing it, to maintain employment targets.
| Monday, September 19, 2016 - 09:32 pm |
The trading is a market.
The participants are the players but also countries without a president.
The gamemaster interventions are rare and mostly limited to only several products.
These interventions are always a fraction of the shortage of the product.
The problem is that many times, there is no quality match. You ask for some quality and there is no one offering it.
With shares on the market, there is no quality. there is just the price to be met.
In the stockmarket, if there is no match, there is a market maker to prevent deadlocks.
Here too, the algorithm looks for the closest match and then, if close enough, makes a deal. It has to be close enough in quality and price. It is very complex to trade and there are compromises.
If the difference is too large, there will be no deal.
products remain unsold. This is mainly when the price difference is too large.
| Monday, September 19, 2016 - 09:44 pm |
The automation works for players in the lower levels of the game and stops when you reach level 4.
You can turn it off before if you wish.
one of the things automation does is to help you balance workers groups and make sure you have workers available in all groups and you can increase employment in your corporations.
These movements are not exact math. They can cause some small increases in the total population. In general it does not like zero availability, or even very low availability of workers in any of the groups.
We have seen that many beginners never look at the education priorities, never tune them and run into difficulties.
The education priorities page is the most important one in Simcountry.
In addition, there is a general assumption in Simcountry, for all game levels, that shortages of workers and oversupply of professionals, will result in some of the unemployed professionals taking jobs as workers. There is also flexibility in people moving between the workers groups.
Severe shortages of high level workers will cause the upgrading of lower level workers moving up.
| Tuesday, September 20, 2016 - 06:34 pm |
Sorry for being noob
But i am new to this game
Yet i cant find this automation u all talking about.
Sorry but please teach me how to get more workers too. Thx
| Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 03:52 am |
Can you clarify this?
If the difference is too large, there will be no deal.
products remain unsold. This is mainly when the price difference is too large.
Making a sales offer for the maximum allowed, either in quality or market price? There's a huge difference between 500% and 243% of market price (which I noted was the marketing strategy in GM owned corps. Yet, the offered product is still sold, not retained. This isn't considered too large a difference?
There are reasons why players request specific quality of goods. For example, early on before they build their own supply chain for high end military goods. Receiving them at lower quality can hurt. Maintaining product consumption. Getting a lesser quality product can hurt. Until the player sets up enough corps ASQ-wise to ensure end user needed quality.
The current process is forcing players into doing the above. And it's a right royal pain.
Perhaps we need a market maker in the commodities market. Commodities have always been a high risk investment, so not sure how that would work. I've advocated a secondary market for suppliers, i.e. small businesses to rectify that,elsewhere.
| Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 07:12 am |
Do u guys know where to find the automation settings?
| Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 04:17 pm |
There's this thing called automation... it's not hard to find...... Big letters on the country page..... I can't really explain something that simple honestly no offense.
| Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 10:56 pm |
Look just above the country map on your main page. Be careful in changing them.
| Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 01:38 am |
I just figured it out that you guys were using browser right?
While i was using the apps. Thats why i cant find many things
| Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 10:35 pm |
I'm glad I'm not the only one fighting the automation! With everything disabled, it still messes up my country every couple of months! It reduces my salaries, telling me I'm losing money and in debt, while I'm floating in cash! It changes my corp supply quality right at the point when orders are made, and I've had to spend hours going through them all to cancel the wrong quality ones! And even then, the ones in surplus go through immediately anyway and I have to take the loss!
Andy, you are plainly wrong! The game killed one of my more profitable corps with the same reasoning as karat - "...has been closed because the market value and utilization are too low and the corporation is making losses." My best guess is that, because that was the month where a new corp bumped the demand for LLWs above the total available, the one that was closed was the one that got a worker reduction. But that's entirely not a reasonable excuse to kill one of my corps! Who's gonna pay for the upgrades when I rebuild it?
And why was I building more corps than I had the workers for? Because I was trying to trick the automation into not demoting any more of my high tech engineer and seniors! I need those damn it, stop taking them away without my permission! And of course, the game sees fit to regularly mess up my education priorities too!
The help text for beginner protection says automation is enforced in the first year even when the boxes are unticked, but it's been 2 years already and it's still happening! How much longer do I have to wait?
Please, please look into this seriously and implement a way to fully disable automation right from the start! And while you're at it, disable automated factory closing intended to "help" beginners; turn the automated demoting of professionals and changing of education priorities into suggestions, possibly implemented like the free but not mandatory hospitals and schools given at the start to get to level 2; do the same with the automated switching of corp supplies to 180 quality; and fix whatever code is mistakenly claiming countries are losing money and severely in debt and cutting their salaries, while they're actually making lots of money and have a healthy treasury.
| Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 11:03 pm |
Also, Zen, the trick to (partial) self-sufficiency is to only supply some of a corp's needs via common/local market, at top quality, and buy the rest at 120q. Additionally, contracts are only for the monthly needs at 100% production, whereas actual production is much higher, so periodic market purchases at 120q dilute the quality of the contracted supplies.
The old guide where I first learned this had a formula for ASQ where price wasn't taken into consideration at all, only quantity. That has clearly been changed since then, which makes this strategy more viable. Before, supplying just 1-4 of the highest quantity materials at top quality and the rest at minimum was enough to get a corp's quality to max, now it takes a greater variety of supplies, opening up the stage for greater self-sufficiency.
In fact, if I remember correctly, the inviability of a self-sufficiency strategy has caused me to give up on Simcountry multiple times in the past. Hopefully this time it will work out differently. For now, that depends a lot on how soon I can get rid of the automation, I can't spend hours every day just reviewing and cancelling material orders at the wrong quality.
| Monday, May 22, 2017 - 12:24 am |
I agree with Vercinger the automation is ridiculous and is just another example of how the GM's aren't listening to the simcountry players anymore. It seems that the GM's simply do not care about the players as they have not responded to the numerous requests to fix/improve the war game, honestly I can't believe there hasn't been A SINGLE RESPONSE! from any of the GM's on the war game issue. It seems they simply don't care about simcountry and it's players and it's obvious the decline of active paying premium members will continue if nothing is done about this and other issues. I think the GM's could at least provide a response, all I am really asking is for the Game Masters to listen to the players who actually pay for the game, I can't see how this can be too much. Can it REALLY BE THAT HARD?