| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 06:27 pm |
I offer 100 GCs to any known, long standing player, that can manage to drive Andy Clark and the rest of Multi Accounts off of every server in SC. Or simply return the Soveriegn Nation of SeekHaven (FB) to the rightful rule of it's owner (Alexandria Hollander)
I realize the bounty could be more, but considering it's over 3/4th of my GCs at the moment, it's what I can offer.
Fine Print: Offer not Valid to any Andy & Co Subsidary, Ally, Co-Conspirator, or Supporter.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 06:43 pm |
If SeekHaven means that much to you, you would probably have more success offering to buy it back from Andy for some amount of GC. You may be able to get it for half of what you're willing to give as bounty.
Just a suggestion.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:04 pm |
I attempted Civility and Diplomacy with Andy Clark. His answer was the Illegal Annexation of SeekHaven. I plead for Peace as a Member of the Security Council in the form of an Enforced Peace Proposal. I still returned the next day to my country stolen without even the decency of a news report to inform me of the aftermath. If I was an Empire with countries to spare, I wouldn't be as upset, however, after ruling SeekHaven for 185 years with diplomacy and compassion, to have it stolen for No reason whatsoever is simply unacceptable, bad form, and poor sportsmanship.
Behavior and Conduct of this nature on the International Stage leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Andy C strikes me as the 1 in 25 people who have no conscience whatsoever and would likely sell his grandmother for a couple extra rounds of warmonger ammo.
And before any excuses are offered in the form of "It's the war world, wank wank wank." Wars have rules, soveriegn nations have acceptable conduct. If they do not, we end up with WWII. and before you say, "So! Sound good to me." Stop and consider the number of casualties and senseless distruction that was brought on numerous countries to appease one mentally ill, yet charismatic lunatics ego.
Nuremberg, The Geneva Conventions, The International Court at The Hague. Any of these things drive my point home?
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:16 pm |
Or... how about...
"It's a game and you signed up to play on the war world."
That point always works for me. Don't worry. Andy & Co won't need to pick on people like you in a little while as I'll be more than happy to oblige them soon enough.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:33 pm |
Seriously though. If that's how you want to play then you should have signed up in one of the other worlds. What he did was fair on FB. On other worlds you may have received more sympathy.
Listen, if you want to play diplomacy then offer to purchase it back from him and sign a treaty with his fed. You can probably get it for 50GC.
Or start a new empire on another world.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:34 pm |
I've heard of missing the point. However I've never seen someone actively dodge and evade a point quite like that. Wow.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:39 pm |
There is no need to address your point because it rests on faulty suppositions. We are addressing those suppositions and attempting to correct them.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:40 pm |
Start watching MSNBC....
Anyways, your point is that Andy beat you in FB and took your country. You believe he is a multi and it was done unfairly. Now you want to offer people GC to take him out.
You have my suggestion. Good luck with the offer.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:41 pm |
@BC: What you are proposing is Rewarding a Pirate for Invading a Sovereign Nation. This is mostly a check test. If I'm gonna bother investing anymore GCs into FB, I need to know there are some worth-while players out there who can still maintain the environment and community. Someone in another post made the comparison of Civilizations vs Barbarians. Well, honestly if the Barbarians have overtaken FB and there isn't a Civilizations Backlash to teach the ruffian upstarts the rules and conduct of International Relations, why would I waste another Coin on a world of Waste. Seekhaven exists on other worlds. Quite nicely in Secured Mode to prevent such heinousness.
Our "Real World" is a "War World" and Switzerland was invaded last WHEN EXACTLY? Nuff said.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:44 pm |
Switzerland would be a logistical nightmare to invade, and a wonderland for defenders. Not to mention the terrain also caters to prolonged resistance even after the war is over. Oh, and then there is all the money the swiss control in their banks.
Again, faulty suppositions.
The swiss aren't invaded because they can bite back, not because of your Rousseau-ian fantasy.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:48 pm |
There is a newspaper mention of this the August 2611 newspaper, which is over 2 real days old. [what have you been doing in the meantime?]
Unfortunately Alexandria, it is you who is missing the point on this one. I second Border's suggestion that you ask andy to sell you back the country; if you get it, either defend it with weapons as well as diplomacy, or buy some war protection.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:50 pm |
"If SeekHaven means that much to you......"
If it doesn't, then don't. You're sounding more like a whiner. Grow up. Admit you lost. Learn from your loss. Get experienced with war, go back and take him out yourself. Or take your ball and go home.
"Our "Real World" is a "War World" and Switzerland was invaded last WHEN EXACTLY? Nuff said."
You will find that there are a lot of differences between SimCountry and the Real World.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:51 pm |
"if you get it, either defend it with weapons as well as diplomacy, or buy some war protection. "
And to add to Danneh, join a federation.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:54 pm |
Yet, you haven't stated the Faults, nor the "suppositions" you state you are addressing/correcting. I have no qualms with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, and fully accept there is a lot I can learn about International Diplomacy.
I miss Klarina. She was so much better with International Diplomacy than I am.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 07:57 pm |
I declare war immediately upon any who answer this call!!!
Leave FB Alex its a war world, but most worlds are headed in the way of war as well.
100 gc isn't hardly worth attempting to take out a good player, especially on all servers/worlds. . . . thats like offering someone ten bucks for their homes. A joke.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 08:13 pm |
You're under the impression that there is either some kind of metaphysical undergirding to a similarly illusory standard of conduct which has been violated here, OR, you are under a Rousseau-ian delusion that civilization arises from the 'noble savages.'
I am attempting to remind you of this by statings that you are firstly playing a game, and secondly that you are playing on a war world, where, if there was a supposed code of conduct, this would be entirely acceptable anyways.
Further, Klarina had significant economic and military prowess to back up her 'diplomacy,' as well as numerous allies with similar stature.
You obviously lacked the two latter, and if your SeekHaven on LU is any indication, the former is lacking as well.
To summarize: GG, re-roll?
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 08:22 pm |
Wow. Just...Wow. Looks like I should have followed the example of those before. SC is Dead. It was a good run. At least a couple of years of entertainment. My countries will be freed from my ineffectual tyranny at the end of my current GCs.
Thank you for your thoughts.
I'll leave you with a couple of my favorite quotes:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
"...to bring about the rule of righteousness in the land, to destroy the wicked and the evil-doers; so that the strong should not harm the weak;" - Hammurabi
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 08:32 pm |
I somehow think Edmund Burke and Hammurabi would feel that their quotes are being misapplied in this context.
Do you express these sentiments when you play RISK as well? Or do you and your friends just sit around with your territory cards looking at how nice it looks when you fill them up with pieces and never attack each other?
Or similarly, in chess, do you only play to watch the horsies do cute jumps over other pieces?
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 08:43 pm |
Never ceases to amaze me that people justify thier behavior and actions as acceptable because it's a "game". As if they would somehow reign in thier impulse and suddenly behave in a purely acceptable measure if it were "Real".
Personally, I think a persons Gamesmanship speaks volumes to thier character. But you did score one more quote:
"I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law."
If your missing the relevancy, it's here:
I don't need a game rule to tell me Unprovoked and Unchecked Aggression is wrong and exposes a dangerous personality trait. But I'm just a *ahem* "Whiner".
Hope you fair as well when and if it's your turn.
| Monday, January 5, 2009 - 08:48 pm |
It's been my turn many times, and I've won them.
Ask andy about when his fed put over 114 war decs on me and my empire in under a day.
And you know what? It was really fun.
I gesture back at my examples of RISK and Chess.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 12:23 am |
Recently i was elected to a 2 month term on the SC, in FB. I was stuned, it was my first ever nomination. I'm not the type of player that goes for rank, and inflated score. To be fair, i'm not saying those that are on top do that, i simply try to build what i think is the best empire i can. And as i'm multi-world, my FB asests suffered.
So here i am, trying to figure out how to be a member of the SC, I find the check box that sends me a notification when ever a new proposal is created. Then I sit back and wait.
So we come to the proposal by Alexandria. I was a bit excited, then disappointed. One of the security council trying to bail them self out?? OK, so I looked at the country under attack.
Alex, you had no weapons? After, you said, 185 SC years? Did at some point you think that some one was going to come for you? Or was your plan to give them a lecture?
I read the reasoning behind the proposal, and waited for any one else to send out an opinion on the matter. No one did, and the vote was 3/3. I did not vote.
This is the war world. If you are not interested in war, you could have a long time ago sold your country and moved to another, more peaceful world. You had 185 SC years, that is nearly 2 real years. That you could have prepared a defense, sold your country, made friends that could have helped. You had 185 sc years, to be prepared... but instead you relied on a forced "peace treaty," You had no weapons, in a 50+m country.
As far as i know, peace treaties aren't really worth much, as they are between countries, not players. He could have simply taken another C3, and attacked from that. Your "plan," to save your country, was well, incomplete.
Beyond that. You come into these forums, to state your dissatisfaction, with the event. And i can feel your loss. However, people go to a Boxing match to watch 2 guys clobbering each other, people go to a wrestling match to watch 2 guys man handle each other. That is why people go to these events. This is FB, and often people come here to fight each other. If you were interested in playing a different game, you had 185 years, to do something else. WG sounds more your speed, no one attacks any one their, you would do well. But don't scold players for wanting action, and going to a server designed for that, to do that.
People are not behaving badly, for attacking people on FB. I would imagine the magority of people who came here came for that reason. Its like a PK server for any number of online games.
Send me a message, i have a couple of countries i can sell you, on either WG or LU, for cheap, if your worried about GC, i can sell you something that will make you the GC you need to keep going, and on a world that will allow you to sit in secured mode.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 01:41 am |
Alexandria put a bounty on Andy's head. She might as well put a bounty on my head too. I'll be the next player to conquer her new Seekhaven unless she changes her ways.
I believe Seekhaven had something like 50 million in population and trillions of SC$ wealth in it. It was very poorly defended. I've seen C3's that had better defensives. It probably took Andy like 15 minutes to overthrown it and he probably lost some missile batteries. The country data of Seekhaven was available for everyone to view. It was advertising a free meal to a pack of wolves. I'm surprised no one had conquered it sooner on FB. It was a nice country. An example of how a country can develop when there's no expenses on a military.
When I was a new player, I had a nice country (with what I thought was a big military) too. I was a loner and didn't belong to a federation. I was going to build a mighty country. My main and only country was conquered by Attila Andy's naval force. I had to start all over. Andy and his federation helped me rebuild. I'm enjoying the game more now. In addition, I'm now building a mighty empire instead of a country.
As for Wildeyes, she is a very worthy adversary. She has had her game turns. I respect her. Wildeyes fought an entire federation. 144 declares. (I think 4 or 5 were mine) LOL. She keep the hostile federation busy and in awe. Then, Barney appeared to back her up. A FB war that lasted RL days. It was fun and straining on my computer mouse. It was a great learning experience for me. Unfortunately, a game bug came into play...
@Alexandria Please stop whining. Many players on FB have had defeats and hardships. Rebuild and learn from your mistakes. Join a federation and network with the other players.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 01:43 am |
Adam was the one who provided the civilization vs barbarians worldview. He was then asked why he wanted to build a civilized empire in the middle of a battle zone, and his response would appropriately have been 'because of the challenge of it.' It's a challenge to build something valuable and lasting when you know others are going to try to take it from you. The wealthier your country, the more difficult it is to keep it from being raided. Adam rose to the challenge and rebuilt his empire with a strong defense, both militarily and diplomatically.
Seekhaven had virtually no defense, and was way up on the list of potential raiding targets for a long time. Sim goes out of its way to tell you that you need strong defenses. A country has to pay for that...you were getting a free ride for 185 years. That may be playing by the letter of the rules, but not by the spirit of the rules. Fearless Blue is advertised as the war world, and all the docs support that. Unfortunately there is not enough war on FB, and it is easy to get lulled into thinking that the world is something that it's not, a peaceful place if you mind your business. We in 3M take quite seriously our responsibility to provide other players with the game experience they've paid for.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 02:38 am |
Alexandria i have lost good counites to players on FB and others have lost some to me like Jo Jo here lost his main to me and then he took it back while i was inactive for a while but its no problem....then i was still doing good with 2 good counties and i lost them 2 but i didnt whine for them back i just simply started on LU and am doing pretty good....and am trying to get back on top on FB.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 02:44 am |
This is a game, and fb is the war world. We come here to fight. Yes I invest alot of time in building up my empire, and yes I will be unhappy if someone takes it from me, but will I cry? No! I will build a new empire and strike back.
Start a new country and the 3ms will help you become much stronger than you were before. We do not seek to get rid of players but do enjoy the game. Many of our members have been former enemies, we are now good friends as they enjoy the game more with us.
Wildeyes and barney are coming for us. I dont care if they win. I look forward to the fun of the fight. This is the war world, where fighting is a big part of the game. I like wildeyes and barney as they play the game in good spirits. They dont cry when I attack and dont gloat when they kick my arse.
This is not real life. There are no real politics. Wildeyes and barney are my enemies because the game would be boring without them.
They serve as good enemies, they could be friends but the game needs enemies. If you want to build a nice pretty country move worlds. I for one will keep poking rubble and co in the eye until we get bored of each other.
JoJo has rightly pointed out Adam, a good player that is missed. I hope he is still well. He strived for a good empire in the midst of the war world. He lost countries to the 3ms and quickly rebuilt a stronger empire. Play and learn.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 02:52 am |
Alexandria, I will take the bounty. BUT, you need to add another zero and change the first digit to a 2 to even make it worth my while. In other words - 2000GC is my price. Take it or leave it.
I'm not even on FB, but being as this is the war world, it could be fun! No offence to anyone!!!
50% would be payable up front and if upon completion you don't pay, you die.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 03:35 am |
Come on over stuart, we will prepare a warm but friendly reception for you.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 04:04 am |
Stuart, she'll probably want a promise from you to return the upfront 1000 GC if you fail to complete the deed.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 04:16 am |
@Vali, and assorted allies.
We can be friends and enemies. Or, friends who enjoy fighting each other. I was pissed upon the initial declaration, but I'm not opposed to periodic romps. Like I said, I'll be back... my account rebuilding is actually ahead of schedule. We can play again soon. And it will be fun.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 04:18 am |
It was just a friendly nudge to get you back!
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 04:19 am |
LOL, not that declaration. I mean the initial 100-something.
I didn't even log in to get the game message this time. I just noticed countries on FB were missing one day. Not that they were anything special. Just scraps.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 04:22 am |
Jo Jo, if I say I will do something, I will. Simple as.
Vali, I will come here and do the deed as long as my actions will not hinder relationships on any other worlds, namely LU. I will not allow friendships there to be put into a diplomatic situation. This would be war for fun on FB only, no other world, and I would keep going till the job was complete.
If all parties agree, and a bounty of 2000GC is agreed, with 1000GC up front, I guess I will see you all soon!!!
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 04:31 am |
haha, dont expect the 1000 gcs to show up any time soon!
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 05:10 am |
Hey everyone. Most importantly this has been a great discussion ,I cant add much to the overall point being made by almost everyone. I of course would gladly have given the country back if I had been asked too,I was not. Stuart,,,Me casa et tsu casa.I would love ya to "come on down". I agree that any wars on FB remain on FB,I think we all can agree to that. Wild is a superior player and i enjoy any time she gives to my learning this game further. Wendy thank you for your defence,it shall not be forgotten. To my fed and friends,,,as always you all are great! To my enemies,I havent gone anywhere,lol. Rgards and respect to all of you,,Andy
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 05:55 am |
Clam always has to rub that in about taking my main. What's that expression, 'living on past glory'? It's okay, anyone can always look up my tale of vengeance....what's this? Sacre bleu, the forums have been purged?!? My saga of woe and redemption and bad beer is gone forever?? oh#@(!&#!%%~@^ No one more will know of my peoples' travails, against all odds, to redeem their hunnish honor after that woeful day of humiliation. Arrrrrgh...... no more of this nicey nicey "I don't care if they win" talk ...no losses, draw the line, victory or death, man the battlements, tap the kegs, defend and attack. Opponents aren't friends until they're defeated! RRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRggggghhhh
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 05:59 am |
I remember that. Good times.
Glad to see you come back Jo Jo.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 06:09 am |
Humm, war on fb sounds like some fun.
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 06:19 am |
Jojo,that was a long night or two if memory serves.lol.It was a fun way to meet you tho
| Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 06:23 am |
Thanks Sam. I think that was your line to me about 'past glory'. Uh, excuse me..... RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRggggghhhhhh!!
| Wednesday, January 7, 2009 - 12:37 am |
Here is an idea. Take your 100GC and invest in LU. With its fast time, you will be able to build up a nice empire. Then use the profits to return to FB. You could build a pretty good war country in 21 days.
| Wednesday, January 7, 2009 - 12:50 am |
I think see has left the game....
| Wednesday, January 7, 2009 - 12:57 am |
| Wednesday, January 7, 2009 - 01:40 am |
AND. . . . its NOT all MY fault. LooooL
| Wednesday, January 7, 2009 - 10:32 am |
If you want peace, prepare for war.
But I am sorry if she has left the game. She's a long term player, of which we need more.
| Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 01:32 am |
Alexandria, for our shared past, I would do it for free.
| Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 04:25 am |
Klar that sounds good, but i think Alex has left the Building.
| Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 06:03 pm |
No Shes around,I returned her country to her,sold her some pop cheap,and wish her well.
| Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 07:50 pm |
Things are as they once were. Sorta.
Lots of lessons learned in the last couple of weeks. Thanks for all the input.
@Darke Katt: Klarina? Is it you?
| Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 10:06 pm |
Lessons learned the hard way of this type are expensive, right? I know. Many of us have learned them too.