President Stats 03/09/2015

Thanks for the stats Dub!

One note, CC6 actually gets held back in the production stat because of its 42 space corps. I believe those don't show up in the production category at all due to the lack of a space production group on the business page.

My empire is still adding pop and corps. I expect to be at 2.5 billion pop and 12.5 trillion monthly production in a few (real) months.

thanks bunches!

i do love the profit per worker category, not one i've seen before, but its been what i've been trying to do, get the most of what i got, and its nice to actually show that off for once.

Thanks for the positive feedback, guys :-)

Profit Per Worker is interesting but I am curious how that was calculated and what it is intended to show. If I understand it right, you looked at the production of a country and attempted to figure the costs of this production by looking at certain government costs and the salaries of those workers.

If this is the case, this figure would be an imperfect view of country profitability as the salaries of workers not only contributes towards the production value of the country but adds to country income in the form of population contributions to government income including citizen taxes, health, and eduction contributions. I would think looking at government income (which already figures what corporations can afford to pay the government after paying their workers) and comparing to the same government costs might give a larger picture of profitability.

edit: Oh, and it does not account for a country's ownership stake in these cou

I thought you might have a problem with that stat ;-)

All data was taken from the downloadable Country Indexes sheets, as I had no appetite for visiting each country individually in game and attempting to bypass finance index / news bar secrecy. This meant I had to model each element of government expenditure from scratch (ie recreate the game calculations for Health, Education etc) as the downloadable data simply does not include said information. Similarly government income data is conspicuously absent, so all we are left to work with is the value of total production.

I was on the fence as to whether the stat should be called PrPW or APPW (adjusted production per worker). I settled for PrPW for the sole reason of its emphasis upon the efficiency and net cost of production - it takes into account the money spent to achieve it, unlike basic PPW. Anyone can raise their welfare index to 200 and attain an absurdly high pr

How does our income tax compare?

I think we are still operating from different mindsets with regards to what the figure actually represents. A helpful allusion might be that i'm talking in 'gross' and you are considering the 'net.' PrPN is concerned with the production process, whereas you are attempting to evaluate it from the perspective of overall result, including other factors not directly relevant to the production equation.

Our countries are actually remarkably similar in terms of end result (profit etc, and income tax), but we go about this in quite different ways:

1: The strength of countries that rank highly for PrPW is that they achieve a high level of production whilst incurring a minimal level of associated costs within that process.
2: The strength of your countries is that they receive a comparable end profit to the nations that scored highly in PrPW - despite the additional costs incurred - through the inflation of total p

Heh, that is a long answer to a 6-word question, that was not answered. It would be easier if your finances were unhidden as mine are.

On the stat itself, perhaps, I am unsure of what the goal of having an "efficient production process" is. For a country, it is too narrow to be a measure of economic health, regardless of your classification of their economic strategy. This is because government income has 3 essential tiers:

1. Corporate/Enterprise tax
2. Worker Tax/Contributions
3. Profit Sharing/Dividends (ownership)

Your stat starts with production, which can be a "gross" stat but the net for a country would be a measurement that considers the value of the workers contributions to a country in all tiers. "Strength" in production could be considered to be the potential value in these tiers but "strength" in PrPW does not show the value/worker to a country.

As I mentioned,

It's a very long post that argues the answer to said 6 word question is completely irrelevant in terms of the context of this conversation.

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On the stat itself, perhaps, I am unsure of what the goal of having an "efficient production process" is. <!-/Quote-!>

I'm not quite sure how to explain something this obvious, other than that an inherently efficient process is by definition superior to one that unnecessarily inflates costs, rectifies some of this inefficiency through post-process mechanisms, only to ultimately achieve a very similar result. Especially when there are other areas reliant upon this process (military spending) that are not able to be balanced as such. This is why your question regarding income tax is irrelevant.

EDIT: Think of our countries this way:
1: Chaos 1 is a boat, it has an engine that weighs 1 tonne and p

I think I can give a better description of the boats and use actual country (boat) data.

Chaos 1

govt income 110 Billion (total boat power)
govt cost 34 Billion (weight)
Total Employment in All Corporations 20,453,280 (rowers)
Military Personnel
14,737 (passengers)
Total Occupants
20,468,017 (rowers+passengers)

$5380 Boat Power/Rower
$1660 Weight/Occupant
-----
$3720 Net Power/Occupant

$2,300,000 Weight/Passenger

Candinnalm

govt income 477 Billion (total boat power)
govt cost 255 Billion (weight)
Total Employment in All Corporations 85,334,644 (rowers)
Military Personnel
1,640,912 (passengers)
Total Occupants
86,975,556 (rowers+passengers)

$5590 Boat Power/Rower
$2930 Weight/Occupant
-----
$2660 Net Power/Occupa

wow, I can`t believe I am top in Profit/per worker and Production/per work.

I don`t even know how I did it.

lol

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I'm not quite sure how to explain something this obvious... -Dub<!-/Quote-!>

i loved that, i can totally relate

corleone, congrats

hey dub, a gentle suggestion/question, do you have an easy way to do a profit per pop calculation. (if you even bother to do this again, thanks for the effort!)

for instance,

Dream Land,
this months profit, 270.4B (but if you could take the average over a game year, it'd be better,)
pop 264M
270.4B/264M = 1.02B profit per million population

this stat would have the flaw of not taking into account military, but it does show a general presidential efficiency beyond simple corps management.

What is obvious is that the stat does not actually represent the efficiency of the production process. Production/Workers or, if you want to add in salaries, Govt Income/Workers are the most obvious calculations of this.

What is still not obvious is the purpose/goal of excelling in his calculation.

Does it mean I get more income for the same number of workers? No

Does it mean that my costs for the same level of production are lower? No

Quite simply, it does not calculate what it implies it would calculate. When I asked, Dub gave a boat analogy and suggested a country that can do well in this stat has the capacity to support a larger military or even a larger military/worker. Is this true? No, it isn't.

I agree with the profit thing, Orbiter, in that it might make more sense to look at this when the economy on LU is not bucking like a bronco.

For this month:

Dreamland

Direct Data
Govt Income $436 Billion
Govt Cost $166 Billion
Govt Cost - Military $149 Billion
Govt Profit $270 Billion
Govt Profit - Military $287 Billion
Total Employment in All Corporations 97,906,558

Derived Data
Govt Profit/worker $2758
Govt Profit/worker - Military $2931

Candinnalm

Direct Data
Govt Income $468 Billion
Govt Cost $255 Billion
Govt Cost - Military $200 Billion
Govt Profit $213 Billion
Govt Profit - Military $268 Billion
Total Employment in All Corporations 85,582,045

Derived Data
Govt Profit/worker $2489
Govt Profit/worker - Military $3131

Chaos 1

Direct Data
Govt Income $109 Billion
Govt Cost $34 Billion
G

i'm gonna make 2 posts here, because this is 2 separate thoughts, that need to be addressed

it is bad form to argue with stats, openly, Dub did what he did, and was not obligated to do it, its rude to criticize him for putting out the effort, openly. this should have been handle through PM.

i for one, do not have the data bases, spread sheets, or other tools to compile stats, i'm grateful that Dub put out the effort. Their have been players in the past that have been soured to doing stats, do to the negative effects.

this really should be something the GM should do, but after years, they haven't. we should be respectful of the people that take the time to do the GMs job.

secondly, your both right, the "production," stat, while it accurately reflexs, well, production, it does not accurately reflex profit

to make a "profit per worker" stat, it would seem to me, that it should be based more on the bottom line profit, including all the costs. how ever, it would seem that is difficult to do, and Dub did the best he could. thumbs up!

then further, aries, in your post, you are basing profit, on corporate workers. but your including income tax from gov employees, in your bottom line profit.

i'd say you'd want to include all employees, and military, while subtracting military cost. the government employees, contribute to the bottom line profit, with Health, Education, improving the Country welfare, and production. while keeping the country healthy, and working.

so, modifying your stats,

Dream Land, 264M total pop
Number of Employed 124.6M
Govt P

but as you mentioned, the econ has been very turbulent,

i've been watching this, knowing, that atm, the comparison, does represent how we each are able to weather a stormy econ, which is an important skill, but does not represent our full strength.

how ever, my HI is still holding my country welfare back, so even with clear skys, i wouldn't be up to full strength. soon tho, probably with in a month. been hoping things calm down by then.

i was trying to wait for the last minute to post this before i hit the door, so that we could move on, so on my way out...

considering Corleone's interest, Dub, do you think that you could do a break down of his numbers, on what put him on the top of your list? i bet it'd really help him. when i checked him out, it seemed he was doing largely the opposite of what i do, maybe looking closer at what he does well might be educational?

shrug

Save your bad form Orbiter. Your first post after mine was not meant to be helpful. Your recent posts seem to scramble to scrape up stats that validate how you do things. Your posts that attempted to link the entirety of government costs to salaries on the thread analyzing Sim-citizen wage data were simply absurd.

As to the data I posted here, I included not only the income tax of government workers but also the costs of their salary, in the form of government costs. By switching this calculation to the general workforce (or population) from corporate workers, you are getting away from quantifying the efficiencies in the economy to simply measuring more of a country focus.

I have more eduction workers, about 2.6 million more, because my population is younger. I will take that. My population growth was 163,744 last month. Yours was 19,375. I have 473 military units upgrading. I just added 30 more this month. That gives me 1.25 mil

ok then, now that you got that off your chest, lets move on, wasn't their something else to talk about?

There's a lot going on in this thread and to be honest in my current hungover state I do not have the will to go into all of it :-P It does seem to have descended into talk of "profit" again rather than "production efficiency," which I reiterate is removed from what I had intended the stat to gauge.

Despite this I do feel it is necessary to say a few short things, however:

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hey dub, a gentle suggestion/question, do you have an easy way to do a profit per pop calculation. (if you even bother to do this again, thanks for the effort!)<!-/Quote-!>

Thanks for the thanks, Orbiter! Unfortunately the only way that I can see this being done is visiting the home page of each country on LU and reviewing the news bar, which is sometimes hidden. I do agree it would provide a result that would better mirror the erroneous title of my stat, but who has t

I am interested in how you answer Corleone and what you can conclude in general about high performance in this stat.