| Yo Hanti (White Giant) | Friday, July 4, 2008 - 12:52 am 
No I am ordering Defensive Missiles. This product is ordered per missile. I know all infos:
Currently in Stock
Base Price
Market Price without Quality Effects
Market Oversupply/Shortage
Spending Space for this Month
This will buy
BUT nowhere is calculated that buying 1250 misiles will cost 233M (on market price).
I would like to know HOW MUCH I'm gonna throw away for these missiles! |
| John Fire (Little Upsilon) | Friday, July 4, 2008 - 08:44 am
Um, do some math. The cost of your order will be:
Market Price * Quality Requested (if "any quality" assume like 300) * Quantity Requested
Not a difficult calculation just bust out that calculator program. |
| Keith Allaire (Little Upsilon) | Friday, July 4, 2008 - 12:01 pm
No need to get all testy about it John. It's all too easy to lose a zero here or there when punching numbers into a calculator, especially when ordering a large quantity of relatively cheap materials (such as spending hundreds of billions on construction to repair a war damaged country), or ordering very expensive materials (I literally have to count zeroes when specifying a fixed order with price in the billions, or GC bids).
Also, some calculators will display large results in scientific notation, which adds another layer of finangling with decimal places, especially given that for many players, it's been years since their schooling, or any time they've had to think about scientific notation whatsoever.
This suggestion makes sense. Add sticking country available cash (as in cash on hand, not spending space) to give this suggestion an added bang, as having 600B spending space and only 300B cash can be a bit misleading. |
| John R | Friday, July 4, 2008 - 12:21 pm
It doesn't matter what's the price, you'll buy it if you want to or not. If you are placing an order for it, its obvious that you think you need for whatever you are planning. So, if you don't buy it, then what?
We aren't playing Cost of Opportunity. Divert your attention to more important matters.
Simcountry gives you the chance to accumulate resources to buy products without the need of a PhD in Finances or, for that matter, a calculator. |
| Keith Allaire (Little Upsilon) | Friday, July 4, 2008 - 08:44 pm
"It doesn't matter what's the price, you'll buy it if you want to or not."
Not always. Not if you have 600B spending space and 400B of cash. Not everything is worth taking loans for. It'd be nice if total cost and total cash appeared on the page for exactly this reason. Now if you'd like to present a serious argument as to why it is a good idea to make players open another tab (to look up cash), I am all ears, but so far all I have heard from either of you is condescending "get out a calculator" tripe. Not to mention that looking up available cash requires opening up a separate page, which is another request on the server.
"If you are placing an order for it, its obvious that you think you need for whatever you are planning."
Have you ever heard of speculation? Strictly speaking, products that one is speculating on are not NEEDED. Additionally, some orders such as ammo can be postponed for a very long time if a player finds he has spending space but not cash.
"So, if you don't buy it, then what?
We aren't playing Cost of Opportunity. Divert your attention to more important matters."
Actually opportunity cost represents a significant principle of economics, upon which this game is based. Even if not everyone understands the wonky economic theory behind it, most have some sort of vague idea that "if I buy A now, I might not have the cash/might have to take out loans for B later."
"Simcountry gives you the chance to accumulate resources to buy products without the need of a PhD in Finances or, for that matter, a calculator."
The information that the OP is requesting requires the use of a calculator to get under current circumstances.
Now would the vets please stop being condescending pricks. Yes, "doing some math" is the short-term workaround to the OP's suggestion NOT being implemented, but I have yet to see any serious reason from either of you as to why this suggestion SHOULD NOT be implemented, given that it is a relatively simple change that only adds a couple pieces of information to a page, mind you information that is extremely relevant to that page. |
| John Fire (Little Upsilon) | Friday, July 4, 2008 - 09:49 pm
| Currently in Stock | | | | 192,791 missiles | | | Base Price | | | | 7.90M SC$ per missile | | | Market Price without Quality Effects | | | | 14.18M SC$ per missile | | | Market Oversupply/Shortage | | | | -30,005 missiles | | | Spending Space for this Month | | | | 750.00B SC$ | | | This will buy | | | | 52,874 missiles | |
Ok, see spending space for this month? And see how much it will buy? And roughly divide that by half if you wish? Or into a fourth? OK? How hard is that?
C'mon, why do you need an exact number? Seriously, I never cared for an exact number so I never needed a calculator. If you want an exact number, then use a calculator. There is no way around it if you don't have basic estimation abilities, he asked how to see an exact number so I told him.
Here's what you do without a calculator:
If you have over $800B then buy 52,000 missiles.
If you have only $400B then buy 26,000 missiles.
If $200B then buy 13,000 missiles.
How hard is that?
There is no reason to idiot proof every aspect of the game by adding bubblewrap around every sharp corner or forcing us all to wear helmets. Because this implementation requires adding a page after the order form is filled to confirm. It would be a pointless page, and would just slow down navigation. For what? A few people who can't ESTIMATE at some basic math? |
| Yo Hanti | Friday, July 4, 2008 - 11:33 pm
"For what? A few people who can't ESTIMATE at some basic math?"
I don't think it's for "a few people". AFAIK it could be usefull for most people.
Of course I can estimate a few things like buying 50% or other round number of items.
But I mostly order things by needs not by rounded percentages.
I need 42.500 tons so I order 42.500 tons and i can't so easily estimate it's price.
That's life not maths. |
| Keith Allaire (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, July 5, 2008 - 12:15 am
"There is no reason to idiot proof every aspect of the game by adding bubblewrap around every sharp corner or forcing us all to wear helmets. Because this implementation requires adding a page after the order form is filled to confirm. It would be a pointless page, and would just slow down navigation. For what? A few people who can't ESTIMATE at some basic math?"
Idiot-proofing the game= "support functions" that play for you regardless of your preferred settings, such as the corp auto-salary changes if said corp dares take out a loan.
The proposed changes merely consolidate information for the player. Yes, I *could* go to another page to look up cash available, but why should I need to? They ARE NOT "support functions" that force players to do things that they do not want to do.
Spending space =/= cash available. Moreover, "spending space" is a game concept, not a RL one...IRL people have the money they have, not any more. Yet in this game, it is entirely possible for spending space to exceed available cash...and this is a near certainty with noobs, at some point in their country's existence, simply because starting assets are only 300-400B or so.
Of course, I could see why someone sitting on top of a 2147537973459247605986289794250987 trillion pile of game cash might have forgotten these kinds of considerations.
More Information Available to Player is always a good thing. |
| Phatz (White Giant) | Saturday, July 5, 2008 - 07:23 am
There is no way to accurately display what he will ultimately pay.
If he places a "Best Price" order the cost may change if the transaction doesn't take place in the first month. Buying a product in short supply may have a higher price each month before the transaction takes place. It may reach the "Immediate Buy" point as well and cost him even more.
If he doesn't have plenty of money to not worry about the minute cost, he doesn't need it. Unless he doesn't mind taking a loan. |
| John Fire (Golden Rainbow) | Saturday, July 5, 2008 - 10:30 pm
You will not need to manually purchase anything other than military weapons and ammunition. If you don't have more in cash than the spending limit, then you don't need to buy weapons. You need to ease up on the micromanagement. Fact is there is no way to tell newbs to not spend anything on military if they don't want to listen.
I defy you to name one non-military related thing that is not automatically purchased. |
| Keith Allaire (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, July 5, 2008 - 11:00 pm
Hospitals, transportation infrastructure, educational infrastructure. Not the maintenance products, but the infrastructure itself. Educational/health/transportation infrastructure is NOT automatically purchased.
This is compounded by the fact that on the "purchase roads/schools/whatever infrastructure" page, there is NO data on spending space OR cash on hand whatsoever, only market price per unit and employment information for hospitals and schools.
None of this is related to the military, so there.
Edit: Unlike military goods, countries DO need to purchase aforesaid infrastructure to prosper--especially the educational stuff. |
| John Fire (Golden Rainbow) | Saturday, July 5, 2008 - 11:03 pm
Oh shit, I forgot about those. Meh, you need those no matter the cost. No way around it.
I have gone into debt purchasing them, but easy enough to get out. |
| Keith Allaire (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, July 5, 2008 - 11:09 pm
Mmmmhmmmm.
Which is exactly why I think that adding available cash and "Cash on hand will buy X units at 100 quality" is a good idea.
Even if you personally don't feel that you will ever use that information, including it is harmless, as it is not playing the game or changing your settings for you.
Edit: Though if it specifies at which quality the price data would apply, there should also be the standard order form to adjust quality specs/fixed/immediate/best price, etc., that applies to all other products. A newb might not know about the automated settings for quality control yet. |
| John Fire (Golden Rainbow) | Monday, July 7, 2008 - 08:13 am
Hmm... i think you do have a point, but I would only support a menu for hospitals, schools, and transportation similar to the one shown when ordering military products
simply because more pages = tediousness |
| Yo Hanti (White Giant) | Monday, July 7, 2008 - 10:21 am
Oki. Military is obvious. I NEED to purchase def military, as I am aiming into level 2. So 75% index in def military is necessary.
I will not go into debt, as my country (8 mln ppl) is too poor to pay interests on outstanding loans.
The ORDER looks like:
"Your Purchase Order for Anti Aircraft Missile
You ordered 500 missiles. You currently have 473 missiles in stock.
The estimated delivery date for this order is October 16 2554.
You selected Best Price as buy strategy. The exact price that you will pay for this product depends on the market.
The current market price is 13.30M SC$ per missile.
If you change your mind, cancel this order now. "
I need ONE additional information: estimated market price for ordered 500 missiles is XXX M SC$ for 100 quality.
Another NON military things are Relief Resources. I don't know if it is usefull, but I wanted to have some relief teams.
So I need to buy MANUALLY:
Electric Components
Electronic Components
Industrial Equipment
Machine Parts
Building Materials |
| Keith Allaire (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 12:21 am
" Hmm... i think you do have a point, but I would only support a menu for hospitals, schools, and transportation similar to the one shown when ordering military products
simply because more pages = tediousness"
This does not mean more pages.
All it does is add an extra line or two of information to a page that already exists. It would be up to the player whether or not to utilize that information.
That would actually make it LESS tedious, because players would not have to *go* to other pages to find all relevant information. |
