GM's need to back off a little (Fearless Blue)

as requested:-

Corporation Cattle
Level Required 1
Low level workers 115000
Medium level workers 74000
High level workers 14000
Low level managers 9500
Medium level managers 4900
High level managers 380
Executives 80
High tech engineers 15000
High tech seniors 3000
High tech executives 70
Total Employees (No Upgrades) 235930

Corporation Weapon Quality Upgrades
Level Required 4
Low level workers 50000
Medium level workers 64000
High level workers 50000
Low level managers 4100
Medium level managers 4200
High level managers 3300
Executives 1100
High tech engineers 70000
High tech seniors 35000
High tech executives 4000
Total Employees (No Upgrades) 285700

Good - I thought I was crazy. I have watched my total corporate employment slowly grow each month as my population slowly grows, but at the same time it seems more and more corporations are DROPPING in total employment percentages. I was wondering if my efficiency upgrades were somehow wearing out...

Not crazy, whew, not crazy... at least, not PROVEN crazy yet...

John Gilbert

Then you are saying right here that since we have larger amounts of people in larger corporations that any time you adjust anything to do corporations or industries the ripple effect throughout individual countries will be super sensitive and much more damaging to it's economy then in the past when the work force and corporation was smaller and able to absorb or dodge issues.

Profits in our countries are being effected more then before with these larger numbers in taxes, larger supply needs, unemployment compensation, profit transfers and a list of other things. We have the same amount of corps essentially but they are bigger with more people and anything effecting them has a larger impact on our countries.

Profits are much more down in our countries then the 10% you claim. The numbers you give us are not correct as you need only look at your own country profit history to see you are low-balling
us. I'm willing to go as hig

Quote 'I'm willing to go as high a 35-50% loss in profit recently.'

Easily I say from whats happened to my main econ.

I have to agree with redman with at least 50% loss in profit, if not more.

Profit has dropped massively.

1year ago oil corp made 30M units per year with 770base cost made 23B income.
(times that by 2.96 to simulate Q and double the income to simulate the goods sell for 2times over base) means you went from 23B income to 136(or higher if u factor in production increase).
1year it was not uncommon for a corp to have 150B or more in sales.

---------------------------------------------

now - it makes 18.6M per year with 770base
(same math brings it to 84B maybe 100B if with increase)

Fact is the GM increased costs, decreased profit.

again... fairy tale land

Likewise.

Hugs and respect

Jo

In the past year profits may have decline by 50%.
You can find examples where it went down by 90% and I can find ones where it is 10%.
It all depends on the product, market situation etc.

the exchange rate declined from more than 200B for a gold coins to 80.

I did not see any specific numbers here that show a declining profit in terms of gold coins.

Numbers will most probably keep declining, gradually, as they did in the past year but the profitability parameters in our economic model and its structure are not changing.

We also have some data on the total assets of the accounts (including everyone in this trail) that show a HUGE increase in the asset value of the accounts.
Some are making more than 1T and up to 4T in profit per game month. Obviously, tuning is not settled yet but profitability will remain, at about the same percentage of the turnover, as it was before.

We could/should shave of

the exchange rate has only declined, because you allowed it to andy, you set the market price with you're infinite amount of gold coins, it hasnt been the players posting 4000T dollars and 10,000 GC.

Cant we just reset the game get rid of the war levels having a dictation on who you can declare on all worlds if you are war level 3 you should be able to fight any war level player on any world. war level 0-2 should be maintained as new player and new war player levels and shouldnt be allowed to be declared, however the profits of the game dont bother me, I still make a good deal in my countries and CEOs. but the structure and consistency of the game is certainly an issue. it's hard to help players when we ourselves cant keep our own countries in line...stop with all the updates, just downgrade to decemember of 2010 or something leaving the space market intact, and all the complaints will stop. lol

:P thats my 2 cents for what its

OK, asset levels may well have remained more or less constant, but the devaluing of the GC and all adjustments has made sc$ much harder to earn. Yes there are a greater number of GC which seems to be your justification Andy but then you need 5X as many now to get an equivalent amount of spending power. When most everything we do in SC is cash based this tops out as a problem.
You must have noticed several players selling GC for real money, is this your game plan? to have people making real money off of the game.

Before the days of GCs, the game was a game. There was war and economics. Ever since GCs, the game is about real money, and has been that way for many years now. I was against it at the time, preferring to pay to play and have fun.

Now, players have invested real money and that is what is at stake. I now make real money and use it for a good cause.

@Andy, thank you for interacting on the forum but please comment on the Governemnt Costs thread.

For new players who see declining values and problems caused by this, it must be incredibly confusing. GMs want more players but them bring them in at a time of uincertainty and confusion.

Saving off a zero would have been much better. Everything stays the same proportionately and then IPO thresholds etc. don't need constant manual changing.

How far will the reductions go, where is the bottom? Are the empire penalties being reduce in line as well automatically?

David, I admire what you do in your case with making a few quid to help your cause. I have no problem with anyone who wants to go this route, for personal gain or whatever. But surely we wouldnt want everyone to be doing this, well obviously not everyone could do this but extrapolated we could have everyone trying to sell GCs to everyone else. This is what I'm asking Andy. And we need cash to operate, I need a lot with 26 countries and 5 CEOs. Ok, I can make enough, just, to get on with atm but the overall amount of cash or equivalent is falling IMO not keeping track with the increase in GC.
And now Andy is considering changing C3 victory profits to GC as well.

See, the only way out for me is to continue to drastically reduce my military...we dont need such big armies now says Andy, but says I, there are still people (on FB particularly) who are willing to spend lots of real cash to keep large military or run massive losses doi

"Bring back the cash please!!!"

I totally agree Crafty.

Nothing wrong with selling gold coins like David is doing to make real cash.

But we still need cash to buy most things in the game with......population, materials, etc. and the exchange rate certainly needs to be better in cash's favor.

That, or go to the extreme, and make the entire game GC based (and I don't see that happening).

AND YES, we would really like for you, Andy, to comment on the government cost issue on the Gov.Cost thread....please.

Agree with you Crafty, but doubt the GMs are listening. They're too busy drooling over the creation of Space Wars. FML.
T

Andy,

I think you are missing a big point. Something that is the most important factor above all your economic models, above all player egos and above the value of GC's or profit. IS THE GAME FUN? And no, right now it's not. Only the players are making this game fun for each other. You have completely lost us and our faith. We cling to each other now.

You talk about players here with high account totals. This is but a handfull of players compared to the game total. In any game you are going to have a certain group that will be at the top. That will never cease to happen. Looking to shave their totals isn't solving anything and is in fact hurting 94% of the players playing.

How is this game fun when you can't make a profit? How is this game standing out from other games when the players fill the forums with every post being about how you are hurting the game? There are so many complaints about what you are doing

Game money is needed to play freely. Make it easier to earn. Otherwise, this thing is just a frustration test.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Are we all to be forced into econ and selling GC? I hope not, that seems like an even worse vision of the future of SC than many paint now.<!-/Quote-!>

This point is kinda catch 22 because if you make cash using the economic model you are under no obligation to exchange your cash you have made into coins and sell it for real money.

Therefore, no one is forcing anyone into any econ model or to sell your GC.

In my opinion, and as a matter of fact, if you make enough cash to turn into coins, then you could alternatively use the cash to purchase, support, and maintain you army. There is no absolute there. Not sure why this has been said.

But, the amount of cash that can be made is becoming harder to accumulate, so it is a testament of players using the economic model to make enough GC to consistently sell coin, and the fact that money is there to be

LAGUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

I miss you big guy

Glad to see you present.

We need more Lagunas around here..

Whats the deal? Too many spankings? WOW, what an about-face LOL.

WEEEEENNNDDDYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

I miss you too. That's why I still log in every so often.

Sounds like Homerdome wants to be part of something...

Yeah I couldn't make out what he meant with %100 certainty.

Wild eyes:
Yes, the exchange rate is down because we pushed it down.

It does not matter why it is down. The numbers are lower. Game money increased in value and many prices and work became cheaper in terms of game money.

This results in lower cost, lower income etc. As long as this is generally proportional there is no problem.

you earn a lower amount of SC$ but what you purchase costs much less.
weapons went down by 50% and the numbers you need went down by another 50%.
other products and items are also much cheaper.

Instead of trading tens of trillions we are now down to trillions. Numbers remain far too high.

We could argue about gold coins or about changing the game but it has nothing to do with numbers going down.

We used to have 1000 bombers being lost in 5 minutes in our old wars, and I remember a war with several millions weapons lost. This is ridiculous and those days are over. The

No worries Andy - as I type this it is the year 2952 on Little Upsilon. I am sure by then, a trillion won't be near as much as, what year are you in again? 2012?

Wow, that is really old!

;-)

No avatars?

oh look a new feature.....avatars