S
Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
16 Oct 2009 10:59Link
I'm sorry Parsifal, I know that's weak. I just don't have very many specific details about America's bankruptcy in 1929.
This is why I'm so proud of the world we live in (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
16 Oct 2009 14:49Link
thought you might have been referring to a European country. yes, 1929 was a disaster, but i would't say the country was forclosed on, even though the devastation was terrible. i watched the John Perkins piece (very interesting as conspiracy theories go) and his conclusions are plausable and based on possible truths. no doubt the US has been in the middle of coups, bribes, etc. over the years. my issue with him is that he doesn't really give solutions other than "getting involved" to turn it around. nor does he talk about what would be the unintended consequencies of turning the whole thing upside down. i live in Houston and i know that if for some reason all the international oil and construction companies were thrown out of third world countries, Houston would be a ghost town over night. i think we have to lay some of the blame at the feet of corrupt politician in third world countries that line their own pockets with swag at the
N
nix001
All worlds
16 Oct 2009 16:35Link
What good does educating the masses do?
Also educate them in what?
The more you know the more you expect.
In India, up until 5 years ago the masses didn't have TV and life went on. Now the masses have TV, they can see what they hav'nt got. Now life stands still.
Let alone the environmental impact of people wanting more.
As for your high drop out rate and incarceration prison rate you should blame that on the people who control what on your TV, in your music, scenario's in a Video Game and anything else that influences kids in a bad way.
Also educate them in what?
The more you know the more you expect.
In India, up until 5 years ago the masses didn't have TV and life went on. Now the masses have TV, they can see what they hav'nt got. Now life stands still.
Let alone the environmental impact of people wanting more.
As for your high drop out rate and incarceration prison rate you should blame that on the people who control what on your TV, in your music, scenario's in a Video Game and anything else that influences kids in a bad way.
M
Man of Peace
All worlds
16 Oct 2009 20:10Link
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks
Here in this hopeless f**king hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any f**king time. Any f**king day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.
Fret for your figure and
Fret for your latte and
Fret for your hairpiece and
Fret for your lawsuit and
Fret for your prozac and
Fret for your pilot and
Fret for your contract and
Fret for your car.
It's a
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks
Here in this hopeless f**king hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any f**king time. Any f**king day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
What theory? It was his job. I pretty much think that it isn't theoretical.
I guess if I told you about my job we could call it a conspiracy theory too. Are we going to disbelieve Perkins because we didn't actually work next to him?
If our economy is built on the backs of foreign slaves maybe we should go with the ghost town. Either that or we turn our OWN LABORS into a great nation.
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
All worlds
Sorry... I had to stop there...
um... what do we chalk that up to? Being naive? Willful denial?
Like what they say is what they do. This reminds me of Galaxy Quest where the aliens have no concept of lying.
We obviously live in different worlds. In my world I can only find examples of the world bank CAUSING poverty.
Yeah, I stopped reading there and I'm not going to continue. (no offense, but you ate the blue pill.)
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks
Here in this hopeless f**king hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any f**king time. Any f**king day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.
Fret for your figure and
Fret for your latte and
Fret for your hairpiece and
Fret for your lawsuit and
Fret for your prozac and
Fret for your pilot and
Fret for your contract and
Fret for your car.
It's a
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks
Here in this hopeless f**king hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any f**king time. Any f**king day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
16 Oct 2009 20:27Link
@nix-- no doubt that media, etc. impacts our values. the dominant culture in US says that what's important is status and stuff. ask the typical middle class US and for that matter the underclass, what the biggest stressor they have in their lives. the lack of time will be up near the top. why, because we are looking for happiness in all the wrong places and we run so fast that our shadow can't keep up with us. we hide in our addictions and our "have to have's". spirituality, in whatever form is of little value to many because we're obsessed with filling our time with things that in the greater sceme of things aren't important.
i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more. it's about what we want. and if it's "stuff" and addictions and they don't work we often turn inward in depression, anger, or take a nihilistic view of the world. and there's good reason for this.
i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with wanting more. it's about what we want. and if it's "stuff" and addictions and they don't work we often turn inward in depression, anger, or take a nihilistic view of the world. and there's good reason for this.
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
16 Oct 2009 23:38Link
@MP very powerful poetry. water can cleanse. do you believe in the cleansing water?
M
Man of Peace (White Giant)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 01:19Link
I wish I could take credit for it. 
However. I just posted some song lyrics that I found relevant to the discussion.
The artist who wrote these songs must believe, on some level, that water cleanses. It is reoccurring throughout his body of work.
However. If you are talking about baptism...
On a spiritual level, I believe he is angry at, or feels abandoned by God.
Can anyone guess the artist or genre?
However. I just posted some song lyrics that I found relevant to the discussion.
The artist who wrote these songs must believe, on some level, that water cleanses. It is reoccurring throughout his body of work.
However. If you are talking about baptism...
On a spiritual level, I believe he is angry at, or feels abandoned by God.
Can anyone guess the artist or genre?
J
Jo Salkilld (White Giant)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 02:17Link
Aenema by Tool. Metal.
Hugs and respect
Jo
Hugs and respect
Jo
M
Man of Peace (White Giant)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 02:24Link
Nice Jo.
You a fan? or Iain?
You a fan? or Iain?
J
Jo Salkilld (White Giant)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 02:29Link
Ooops ...
Let's just say I have an eclectic taste (and instant access to wiki)
Hugs and respect
Jo
Let's just say I have an eclectic taste (and instant access to wiki)
Hugs and respect
Jo
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 04:29Link
@MP-- i agree that he's angry. but sometimes in our anger we reach out to things that don't seem congruent. you're probably right about him. i'm too old to know about him. but i'm always looking for the possibility of new beginnings. water, whether baptism or some other form of cleansing can be seen as a way of washing away the past and even our childish beliefs in "the gimme god" and embrace something more lasting and transcendent. that requires that we allow ourselves to sink into the murky waters of unknowing.
@Jo you are such a fox. i never know when you're going to turn up. Hugs and respect to you too.
@Jo you are such a fox. i never know when you're going to turn up. Hugs and respect to you too.
J
Jo Salkilld (White Giant)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 04:40Link
/me hugs Parsifal
@ MoP ... I'd quote some Floyd, but it isn't the same without the music, so it will have to be Leonard Cohen ...
"First we take Manhatten ... then we take Berlin"
Hugs and respect
Jo
@ MoP ... I'd quote some Floyd, but it isn't the same without the music, so it will have to be Leonard Cohen ...
"First we take Manhatten ... then we take Berlin"
Hugs and respect
Jo
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 04:59Link
@MoP--well i listened/watched Aenema. yes, he's pissed. but sometimes even in nihilism there's a thread of hope and a look towards re-creation. the creature seems to be trying to come to final creation and the water possibly acts as a medium for making the creature evolve. but there's something missing and we wonder if there was more time to evolve, whether it would turn into a fully evolved human. but the evolution is stopped when the bald man takes the canister and throws it against the wall and the creation dies. lots of interesting questions. who's the bald man? is the evolving creation, his baby? why did he throw the cannister against the wall? is he angry with his own imperfect creation? what do you think? i know, i think too much, but it's an interesting piece/production.
S
Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 10:55Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:i watched the John Perkins piece (very interesting as conspiracy theories go)<!-/Quote-!>
What theory? It was his job. I pretty much think that it isn't theoretical.
I guess if I told you about my job we could call it a conspiracy theory too. Are we going to disbelieve Perkins because we didn't actually work next to him?
<!-Quote-!>Quote:i live in Houston and i know that if for some reason all the international oil and construction companies were thrown out of third world countries, Houston would be a ghost town over night.<!-/Quote-!>
If our economy is built on the backs of foreign slaves maybe we should go with the ghost town. Either that or we turn our OWN LABORS into a great nation.
<!-Quote-!>Quote:i think the answer to the thi
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 15:03Link
@SG no doubt US business interests and military interests have often gone hand in hand and have dealt immorally. but it takes two or more sides to form a conspiracy and to be complicite in an act. no doubt US interests have maintained puppets in many countries over the years. and they've taken them out by force. but often US aid to underdeveloped countries is diverted by corrupt officials within the country with money from natural resources funneled off to a small elite group. and yes, they may be in bed with the US corp/military/cia but they still have a choice as to how they will treat their countrymen. let's see what Chavez does with the money that's taken in now that they have more control. it may be a model for other countries. but the history of third world countries didn't just start with US intervention in the last 50 years. it goes back hundreds of years and has it roots in european colonialism.
there is an int
there is an int
S
Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 15:13Link
Meanwhile hundreds of millions are still impoverish deliberately.
Lets see where Hugo is spending the money:
Venezuela paid, in the last eight months, 60 percent of its debt with the International Monetary Fund (IMF), said a report of the Central Bank of Venezuela (CBV) released Tuesday by the local press.
By Guillermo Parra-Bernal
April 14 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela said it paid off $3 billion in loans owed to the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank this week, ending ties to two multilateral lenders it says curtailed its "economic sovereignty" for decades.
One more...
15 April 2007 | 00:27 | FOCUS News Agency
CARACAS. Venezuela has paid off all its debts to the International Monetary Fund and World Bank and told them goodbye after fiercely criticizing the institutions for policies it claims have perpetuated poverty. "My dear Sirs at the
Lets see where Hugo is spending the money:
Venezuela paid, in the last eight months, 60 percent of its debt with the International Monetary Fund (IMF), said a report of the Central Bank of Venezuela (CBV) released Tuesday by the local press.
By Guillermo Parra-Bernal
April 14 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela said it paid off $3 billion in loans owed to the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank this week, ending ties to two multilateral lenders it says curtailed its "economic sovereignty" for decades.
One more...
15 April 2007 | 00:27 | FOCUS News Agency
CARACAS. Venezuela has paid off all its debts to the International Monetary Fund and World Bank and told them goodbye after fiercely criticizing the institutions for policies it claims have perpetuated poverty. "My dear Sirs at the
S
Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 15:46Link
And colonialism...
What's the big difference here? The British sucking the Spanish dry? What exactly has changed?
The conflict that ended in 1604 between the England and Spain, that had begun in 1585 was a Spanish defeat. Remember the whole sinking of the armada thing?
What's the big difference here? The British sucking the Spanish dry? What exactly has changed?
The conflict that ended in 1604 between the England and Spain, that had begun in 1585 was a Spanish defeat. Remember the whole sinking of the armada thing?
S
Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 16:23Link
See? you learn something new everyday... at least I do for example did you know...? I didn't.
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
17 Oct 2009 17:25Link
the name of the act is the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
i will be signing off for a few days, but i'd like to continue the dialogue.
i will be signing off for a few days, but i'd like to continue the dialogue.
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
22 Oct 2009 01:24Link
well, i'm back. while i was out of town, i did some research on Venezuela and Perkins. let me prefice by saying i see both sides of these issues and know that most parties (corps, US and country officials) can't claim clean hands. ex. there is no universal acceptance of Perkins espec. by the NSA who catagorically deny his involvement in black hat ops. thus, with that kind of disagreement, it would indicate that we must consider Perkins ideas, a conspiracy theory.
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
22 Oct 2009 01:32Link
here's an interesting article on ven education reform. it'll be interesting to see if it works.
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/4734
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/4734
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
22 Oct 2009 01:40Link
this one is about Venzuela making deals w/ Russia and China. also, other countries seem ready to belly up and make deals giving Ven 50-85% of revenue or is that profit? hum.. China and Russia are planning on investing up to 36bill in the projects. that will be interesting. wonder what will happen if he tries to take over their operations.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aPmr3eR8stD4
it's my understanding that EX and CONPHIL are going to abandon arbitration. what good is arbitration if Chavez says screw you to the arbitrator. i'm going to check with my Houston contacts about what the provisions of the contract were. i'm sure i won't get all the details, but it might be interesting to get another view.
the next few years will be very interesting.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aPmr3eR8stD4
it's my understanding that EX and CONPHIL are going to abandon arbitration. what good is arbitration if Chavez says screw you to the arbitrator. i'm going to check with my Houston contacts about what the provisions of the contract were. i'm sure i won't get all the details, but it might be interesting to get another view.
the next few years will be very interesting.
S
Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
22 Oct 2009 08:00Link
There is no universal acceptance of the Mafia espec. by the Gambino family who catagorically deny their involvement in organized crime. thus, with that kind of disagreement, it would indicate that we must consider the prosecuting attorney's ideas, a conspiracy theory.
P
Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
22 Oct 2009 15:31Link
and there were/are some who would say that the Gambino family has done some good (not me) but that doesn't legitimize the evil they've done. the same would go for the NSA, the World Bank, the CIA, the US military, etc. there are many, maybe most who would say that these entities are what have worked in the interest of US citizens and the betterment of all humankind. one of the world bank's stated goals is to help underdeveloped countries build infrastucture, etc. to bring persons out of poverty and to help all humankind. there is much truth in this, but as humans, we have a dark side. transparency and accountability are things we need but tend to avoid. there are also levels of legitimacy with institutions. we tend to love to embrace conspiracy theories; whether it's the CIA, the Catholic church, Free Masonry, Socialism, etc. conspiracy therories make it easier for us to explain very complex issues and to spin subjective event
S
Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
23 Oct 2009 11:16Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:one of the world bank's stated goals is to help underdeveloped countries build infrastucture, etc. to bring persons out of poverty and to help all humankind. there is much truth in this<!-/Quote-!>
Sorry... I had to stop there...
um... what do we chalk that up to? Being naive? Willful denial?
Like what they say is what they do. This reminds me of Galaxy Quest where the aliens have no concept of lying.
We obviously live in different worlds. In my world I can only find examples of the world bank CAUSING poverty.
Yeah, I stopped reading there and I'm not going to continue. (no offense, but you ate the blue pill.)