W3C - Tiny Atlas - next steps

We have now completed the first phase of the TA development, raw material and the introduction of the first products that are using Targon.

The completion of the first phase is showing the possibility to introduce other developments along these lines.

We see several wel developed countries that might even become profitable which is not easy on TA.

We have also stabilized the processing on Tiny Atlas and all issues with processing that were caused by the very small size of countries and economies are resolved.

In the next phase, there will be many new developments:

- The discovery of new rare metals deposits.
- The discovery of more natural resources
- The introduction of more products that will be using products that originate in Tiny Atlas.
-Possible opening of parts of the general market on TA

we will publish a more detailed plan before any additions are implemented.

In your list, can we get the normal natural resources, and the open market, on a a sooner, than later type thing?

I just want my country to order stuff by itself.

To order stuff, someone will have to produce it.
C3 countries on TA, do not produce anything.

open the market, and they will all start ordering and nobody there to supply.

We will add some natural respources soon but it does not make sense to add all of them because of the steep price of producing on TA.
you need to move all these materials you need for production.

We need to add things that cannot be produced elsewhere and add value to productive countries on TA.

I can think of a couple players, at least, that don't want to expand, until we have natural resources, because he doesn't want to manually supply a million corps.

its a pain in the ass to build a corp, and manually supply it, every time, and every day, its what holding allot of folks back.

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I just want my country to order stuff by itself.<!-/Quote-!>

Your dismissive of this stuff. But as is, the world is unplayable. Players are telling you why. Please, re-adjust your plan, to make the game fun, rather than a job.

to be more direct, Andy, players have been telling you that TA isn't fun, its a pain in the ass.

So where do you want these products to come from.

I see countries with 50million+ population and 60 corporations.

Direct contract are possible between countries.
ordering products that are ot available on the market?

The number of presidents on TA is growing.
This is not a short term project but once you have a country, you can expand the population at no cost.
no gold coins required.

You can build education and have the workers needed for the corporations.

as to transports:
I have experimented with it.
I buought 1B tons of Potassium on a country in one of the other worlds and then started a transport for 1B ton.
It takes a long time but it does not require any baby sitting.

I have many transports going, that will not be finished for weeks. Un attanded, and moving billions of tons of all kinds of products.

I deliver products to my corporations once in two weeks or more to keep them running for 120 months. That is 20 days at full production.
Each product I sell them, goes in one action to all the corporations that use the product.
There are may be 60 products involved which means delivering 3 products a day, on average, to all corporations that use it.


so yes, it is not simple.
If too complex, just don't do it.

The benefits of having assets on TA will grow.
they will add up and at some point will result in very high profits and advantages.

It will take time for many to join and once they do, they will start producing all kinds of products and there will be a market.

Right now, I see countries with as many as 30 products they produce at quantities that are much larger than what they use.

At some point it will become possible to open the markets for countries with a president.

There are now countries with Targon batteries and Targone missiles.

we will search for natural resources very soon and there will be more Targon but also other resources.
Uranium will be found too, but you do need a countyry there, and workers, to mine it.

we have explicitly chosen for a way of doing it where game money will do the work and will not require gold coins.
there were players who told us they have cash and nothing to do with it.

Andy, I'm flabber gasted that you would list my success on TA, as mile markers, then say if "it 2 hard.."

although, what i do like, is that i'm basically building production shells, i'm not gonna make corp profit, your not gonna open the market, why not focus my production on something i want to have, rather than just what makes a profit? i can still create value, just not cash value.

like i was taking your warning/suggestion about self-contracting basic supplies, i was setting something up. but now i can just plan on over building food on TA, and shuttling stuff back.

Orbiter,

I saw several larger countries on TA and I see what they do.

I based large part of the description on a country we have set up.
49 corporations, all making losses and massive transports from day one.

We want to see if it is possible to become profitable on TA but I agree that this is not an important issue.
We are participating to see what is possible, or easy, or hard to do.
we, like you, have only a limited experience and on top of that, experienced difficulties with the simulation due to the small size.
These problems are hopefully behind us and processing runs with no breaks now for weeks.

We cannot open the market now but we do think that we will be able to open it for countries with presidents later.
at least 20 of our corporations produce much more than the country uses.

we will add more features, products and incentives to TA.
now that everything we planned for the start works, it is much easier to add more.

Tiny Atlas Description

A description of Tiny Atlas is part of the worlds document in the game documentation.

This section describes the way TA works with quite some details.
we will add more and we move on but any comments or questions and suggestions are welcome.

The last game news comment are now updated although the document update is there for a little longer.

I wonder if common markets will work on TA?

HAHA.
I wonder too.

We are not more experienced on TA than you are.

At this stage, trading on TA will probably not work.
too tiny.

We hope to be able to add more features to TA and make it interesting to more players.

With more players, the markets can function.

I do not think that trading is currently an important issue.
we already discussed on the forum that there is not much profit you can expect on TA.

currently, you can produce Targo.
In the near future, you will be able to produce much more and use these products elsewhere.

my common market has been working, as well as on any other planet, better even because everything is 120q, its just that the open market doesn't work right

My country needs fruits and cheese.(shortage)

Fruits and cheese are in the green on TA.

I actually have a common contract for fruits and cheese, and I'm contracting 100% of my country need for fruits and cheese. I even sell the rest on the market to help my planet.

But my country grows, everyday I have to adjust contract for fruits and cheese.

I have a small shortage, enough to hurt my supplies index. I look, fruits and cheese are green since my enterprise sell on the market.

But still my stupid country won't order the 5000 fruits and cheese it needs by itself.


Open the market for countries to order at least some product by itself. The players will build the corporation needed.


By the way my country and enterprise are about 90% self sufficient, with a few exceptions that are easier to import. But the way common market are designed with growing countries, it's hard not to run in some shortages.

Another problem, is that many countries have shortages of fruits and cheese, yet my corporation is losing money since I have unsold fruits and cheese, and the price is artificially low. If countries would order these product, the price would reflect more accurately the real need for fruits and cheese.


Thanks for listening

Thanks for your response.

I see some produts traded.
even some I was sure were not treading.

I think that problems with processing, until two weeks ago, triggered some action by an engineer here, who found the reason for the problems in some trading that got stuck and enabled some form of trading.

We will discuss it all here tomorrow.
I will try to get the trading to work for countries with a president.
Not sure it can be done in a couple of hours but if we get somewhere, I will try to push it into the next upgrade we plan for Tuesday.

Imagine we open trading in fruit and cheese for all countries then 700+ countries with no president will all order fruit and cheese.

you will be able to sell products but buying them will be impossible with so many orders waiting.
This is the problem with the markets right now but it seems that more countries now want to trade and we will look into what can be done.

upgrade or not, I will come back with more info on Tuesday.

Hello thanks for your answer.

Yes, corporation order product by themselves. Whether it gets fill or not depends on market.

But for countries, there is even an option in the automation tab, the option is called - ""Automatic placing orders for products that your country need""

Looks like you have a solution right there. Set it to "off" by default for all countries, and for president who activate this setting, let the order strategy tab decide what the countries order.

I'm not an engineer and I know it might not be this easy since I think shortages bypass this feature with immediate order. I agree we don't care if C3 countries run out of fruits n cheese or not, and we wouldn't be able to cover the initial shortages if all c3 countries order billions of fruits n cheese.


Thank you for the reply.

TA does not have immediate orders.

the idea was that you must get the products over.
Imeediate orders, even if available, stop quickly if nothing is produced.

Immediate orders are, when they work, delivered and new orders are placed to fill the gap. If the gap remains, immediate orders stop.

I have supplied all my corporations with 120 months of supplies.
easily done, to all corporations at once and I don't have to look into it for weeks.

all the corporations order automatically but they do not need anything so they do not ever order anything.

I do not need to cancel.

"I have supplied all my corporations with 120 months of supplies.
easily done, to all corporations at once and I don't have to look into it for weeks."

Can you elaborate a bit more on this? I would love to find the button where I can do this "at once" because for me, I have to go through around 100/150 products and manually click 120, if im lucky enough to have this amount.

I have 190 corporations on TA at the moment.

It does last for a bit less than 20 days, IF you don't build any new corporations. If you do you have to re/supply again.

So I ask again, please, where is the supply max to all corporations button, so I can spend some time with my family instead.

Thanks a lot. Buddy.

At once, but one product at a time.

so you supply checmical to all your corporations that use it, in one go.
If you have enough for 120 months, you are done for 20 days.

I have huge transports running for 3 months or longer, for quantities I never had to repeat.

Alll this is not trivial, also not very difficult but this is what we said from the start.

with 190 corporations you probably already produce most products you need and there is no need to transport all products.

Maybe one day, we could do all products at once.

Andy,

A suggestion for Tiny Atlas, which might make the entire thing more "manageable" and help to increase player and planetary growth.

Has the GM considered instead creating corporations and products for just Tiny Atlas?

Right now as a small example, players have to shuttle over:

"Computers, Internet, Mobile Devices, Software, Cable TV, Power, and telephone service".

Why not make a new service corporation called "Interplanetary Telecommunication services" that uses these and other services to produce that service.
Then on Tiny Atlas instead of consuming all those assets it consumes just a single asset.

Going forward this allows players like myself to trade or help others in Space?
Maybe Orbiter and I work out a deal where I produce all the supplies off Tiny Atlas in exchange for some Targon.
It would allow those who do not want to be on Tiny Atlas, still be able to play with and help those that are.

I would be HAPPY to take the time to help create the space corps needed that would allow "Tiny Atlas and Space game" to thrive!

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Maybe Orbiter and I work out a deal where I produce all the supplies off Tiny Atlas in exchange for some Targon -Sup<!-/Quote-!>

I'm fully capable of building/buying my own supplies. Take a look at my main on LU, I've got over 250T material waiting for a use, and thats just one country, not to mention the material thats already in place, is enough, it just occasionally needs a refill from my LU or WG stuff. And 1600 shuttles, their isn't an actual need for the help you offer, unless you want to transport them to TA yourself, and manually fill the market, -everyday-

An example of the problem.

A WT corp, uses 16 different supplies. Andy mentioned some where that some supplies are being over built, and sold on the market. Which happens to mostly be my over supply, btw. So 5-6 products, the WT corp will auto buy. The other 10-11, have to be manually supplied.

So, Aluminum, Carbon, Batteries, Computers, EP, one or the other of Electric/onic compenents, FMUs, Glass, HTS, Mobile Devices, Services, Software, and Steel. Have to be manually supplied to each new corp. And sometimes I EQ.

The GM have offered WFs as the only way to raise the FI to build high end corps. So many of those things just can't be built. And realizing this is the best profit solution I'm gonna get (WF income,) I've built 16 WT and 6 WF corps in my TA main, with 2 other countries doing the same basic thing. That meant, that every day, for over a week? I have to manually supply 3-4 new corps, every day.

Then I had a need for hospitals, and it was the same basic thing. Manually supplying every corp. Some corps aren't as intense, and usually the re-supply, (that Andy is talking about,) is only a couple things in each country, every day.

As far as complaining about it. I'm not complaining for myself. I've been doing all this, I'm triple the size of Andy, or any one else. I've long since got allot of stuff self-contracted to make it easier. And a large variety of products, for myself, which extra for the market. But every one i've talked to, about co-operation, just doesn't want to put in that kind of effort, they just want normal-ish. And i can't really say that I blame them.

The GM insist that TA is suppose to be difficult. But its difficult to point of being unplayable, for most players, in an game enviroment, that is itself too challenging for most would be-players.

I was just using you Orbiter as an example.
You where the first person I saw in chat that I could make the reference for the purposes of conversation.

But my point stands, it provides players a chance to contribute to the game while not being on the planet.
For those looking to join the planet it allows them to join groups that want to explore together to build new alliances.

Building logistics systems will help create new strategies for the player base to explore!

Ok so we can all agree that TA is tedious, and overall not à very fun game expérience for the long run?

Personally I love the challenge but it's just a lot of tedious micromanagement. I'm already feel the burn out.

I am focusing on goverment buildings and removing Targon.

I import all the food and raw materials from LU fortunately I have plenty of shuttles.

Without trying to manufacture too much on TA it simplifies things.

As a side effect I have built more shuttle maintenance corps so a new world is economically benefitting an old one.

My only suggestion would be to expand the list of items you can direct transfer between account and country to include turbine blades.

Transferring those by shuttle is a huge pain.