U.S Governmet Shut Down

In Australia we pay a Medicare (Gov healthcare fund) tax of 1.5% of our taxable income. If you earn less than 18K a year you don't pay the tax at all, if you earn under 22K you pay a reduced amount. If you choose to take out your own private healthcare insurance, you don't have to pay the tax.

This gives every resident access to healthcare when needed.

Personally I think its a great program and it works rather well. And I can't see the downside to having a program like this set up in the good old U.S of A.

I don't see why there is such strong opposition, am I missing something?

This is all the Republicans fault and they are wrong. Get yourself another political party.

I agree Laguna, usually, I am more moderate, but its clear that the Republicans caused this, and ON PURPOSE! Idiotic, they even had it on paper that they were doing such a thing, its a good thing Obama is letting states fund their national/state parks now. The Statue of Liberty, the Grand Canyon, and other are now open.

Well, I sympathize with the average GOP rep up for re-election facing an extreme right wing tea-partier who wants to ban everything (except guns of course). A man's got to keep his job doesn't he (a woman also lol). After all, from what I heard, there's been such gerrymandering lately, that most GOP seats are safe from outside attacks and only vulnerable to primary challenges. So everything that's going on is easy to interpret.

I am by no means republican, but dont you think there should be some sort of responsibility in regards to debt? Something has to be done, dosent it?

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its a good thing Obama is letting states fund their national/state parks now.<!-/Quote-!>

C'mon man!!!! Maybe Obama will let us have our food stamps, our ObamaPhones, our public indoctrination/education and our ObamaCare? Many of the parks that the government closed were funded with private funds. There are even cases where the government shut down parks that were not funded in the very least by the government. This shutdown was specifically designed to make the PUBLIC.... you and I.... suffer as much as possible.

agree with serpent !

Of course there should be some responsibility in regards to debt. I'm all for that. After all I've seen the consequences since I live in a country whose politicians were completely irresponsible resulting in its bankruptcy (although the US could never go bankrupt unless they actually wanted to, as I stated many times in this forum)!

However, this political bras de fer you're witnessing (and suffering from) in the States has absolutely nothing to do with debt. After all, it was GWB and not some free-spending Democrat who managed to tank the American economy, not to mention fill his corporate friends' pockets, by warring out of control. And out of context I might add ;)

None of the politicians actually means to do anything about debt, as long as they own the printing presses. What they want is to focus the spending where they can get the most out of it in termas of votes, money and influence.

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I am by no means republican, but dont you think there should be some sort of responsibility in regards to debt? Something has to be done, dosent it?<!-/Quote-!>

Yes. ObamaCare is an answer: it curbs healthcare costs.

It boggles the mind that you guys didn't go single payer.

The jury is still out on if ObamaCare reduces cost. I actually dont know anybody that has signed up for the program. Many attempts, but none successful.

As far as single payer system, I challenge you to find ONE example where the government has even remotely instituted a beneficial social program. True on the rare occasion... when lobbyists and other leeches of society hasnt been involved in the creation of the program... the intent was good. But within a very very short time the program is misused and abused.

Just look at what happened in 2 hrs when the 'EBT' otherwise known as foodstamps system was offline and the system didnt keep record of the amount used on the cards, several Wal Mart stores had the shelves cleared when many took advantage of the system.

This is just one of many many abuses of a system that for some reason people in the USA call 'entitlements'!!! Why are they called that? I cant see where the 'entitlement' part comes from. Maybe charity or something, but certainly not entitlement.

The sad fact is, is that there is not one thing that can/will fix the problem of healthcare. ObamaCare is just somebody trying to put a 'band-aid' on the real problem of extremely high cost of health care. Of course there are other reason and factors that contribute to that high cost, but thats what the real problem is.

I caught the whole "EBT" crisis from drudge, america is really coming undone.

It's a shame we have people who take advantage of well-intended programs, and they really can't be prevented. It's also ashame how the proposal being made in the senate will down the medical electronic tax, which was struck down because of Unions begging for it to be down since it would hurt them. If it was still in, it would prevent prices from going up, and it would lower them to compensate for the cost of pre-existing conditions.

Also, the Republican led "protest" that moved barricades from the Mall was on them. If they cared so much, they should have made a deal before they caused the shut-down. The House is responsible for making budgets, so they just decided to trick the public.

If the program hasn't been implemented yet, what results are there to judge? At least give it a go, hey? But luckily for us, we can count on rational expectations:

- Premiums in NY will go down by 50%
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/health/health-plan-cost-for-new-yorkers-set-to-fall-50.html?_r=0

They will drop all over the country.

- And you can always compare:
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/in-defense-of-canada/

Of the developed world, the US (probably) has the most inefficient health care system of them all:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/why-pursue-health-reform1.htm

- And there's always theory:
http://www.aeaweb.org/aer/top20/53.5.941-973.pdf


Republicans are wrong to bitch and moan over this.

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Of the developed world, the US (probably) has the most inefficient health care system of them all: <!-/Quote-!>

I agree with that. However government regulation and interference has never been the solution. But I hardly think its a good idea to 'give it a go' when everything else the government has been involved in has been a failure.

For every link or article that is posted as to why and how ObamaCare is good and reduces cost, several more can be posted that say the opposite. Thats why I try to simply use history as an indicator as to future behavior. According to that ObamaCare is a complete failure.

Obamacare was designed to be a complete failure from day one. Hell the very
insurance corporations he promised to fight are the main people who supported obama-care,
and guess who stands to profit the most from the "law of the land" the cruel & great evil
insurance companies.

IMO, it's a little too late to stop this train america is just filled up with so many damn
homer simpsons to come up with a decent means of pushing back against such madness.

America is just filled up with so many damn homer simpsons. that's true, maybe the truest statement on this thread.

Good to see i'm not alone in such thinking of our fellow americans haha.

But i must admit something @Aaron, that is not exactly my feelings toward my brothers
and sisters sadly these words come from the lips of a elite & powerful male within our
government.


"We think that, as my co-author, Thaler and I, that there's a little Homer Simpson in all of us. Sometimes we have self-control problems, sometimes we're impulsive and that in these circumstances, both private and public institutions, without coercing, can make our lives a lot better.

"Once we know that people are human and have some Homer Simpson in them, then there's a lot that can be done to manipulate them."

-Cass Sunstein.

doesnot Obamacare have any good benefits to US?

Not really.

Cite some unbiased, reliable sources, then you can try to convince him again.

Their still not back up and running and things deteriorate day by day, the news says that unless they come to a conclusion than America is going straight to hell.

single payer is the way to go but ironically the reason why obama didnt was probably because he didnt want to rock the system so much.... many people already get their healthcare from their employer so it would be a large undertaking to overhaul all of that.....

Serpent how would you suggest lowering the outrageous healthcare costs in this country without people coming together through the only national forum (the federal government) and implanting systems to lower costs..... Because thats what every other pseudo first world country does and it is successful

the only problem here is anytime someone says socialism in the US people (tea partyers) go insane... but the fact is healthcare doesnt lend itself to a capitalist system... if your dying and need a drug companies can charge as much as they want unless you come together in a national forum and negotiate for a fair price..... that is capitalism any other way is oligarchy


by the way when people talk about entitlements they mean social security and medicaid... which we pay for with social security and medicaid tax out of our paychecks for thus we are entitled to it

talking about food stamps is a waste of time the cost of the government shutdown was higher then the annual cost of food stamps.... and im sure many people find many various social programs beneficial regardless of how many examples of misuse you can find in a country of 350 million people

and can you show me how history has shown that obamacare is a failure?.... i agree that you can find many articles for and against something its just that some are written by partisan morons


the only problem i have with obamacare is that its relatively complicated compared to a single payer system if it fails hopefully we will continue on to a single payer system.... oh and i think its a shame i may end up subsidizing some young fat alabamians diabetes medicene

oh and you never responded to our lively debate on the communist manifesto serpent? is there a reason for that?

COME TO CANADA!!!!!! HEALTHCARE IS FREE BESIDES THE AMBULANCE!!!!!

Socialist type programs never work. One could argue that Obama is an idiot. I happen to think the man is quite intelligent in his objective to ruin the USA. I am absolutely astounded at all the dum dums who voted him back in office. It's funny, I drive along the interstate and see signs that say "IMPEACH OBAMA". The problem with our country and its citizens is everyone wants something for free. I say get off your lazy butts and get a job!! Earn your keep.

Right now my employer is going through massive lay offs due to the idiot in office, the sequestering and Obamacare. Of all the 3000 or so employees who have been laid off and more to be laid off, I hope that every one of these people voted for the idiot that has made this happen lol

Aren't your fire departments over in the US socialist systems Jan?