Pissing Contest

your lists of costs for health supplies, amounts to 55-60% of the total cost, leaving allot of room for the effect of salaries.

but have it your way, this is what i meant above about "arguing tell you win," i've made many, clear and valid points, that you casually dismiss, because it does not suit you. so, i'll let you carry on, and i'll continue to dominate in profit

how ever, later, when i have more time, i'll address the corp material question.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Your first post does not take into consideration that there was a difference of over $1B in material costs. Your comment remains absurd. -Aries<!-/Quote-!>

but before i do, i'd like to hear your explanation, why is their such a difference? and how does 1B difference in raw material, have more weight than 2B difference in wages?

its seem to me, the stronger, larger,

Casually dismiss? I have shined the spotlight through your smoke and mirrors show. Either go learn how the finance page works or find someone else to fool with your finance page shenanigans. Players can choose to learn from the player who actually adds cash and assets at a clip exceeding $20 Trillion/day or a player who has learned just enough to dress up their Profit & Loss page.

tools, as you'd say, with the gauges, calibers, and measurements we have, everything points to me paying less for more, but you continue with what your doing, by all means.

and how about an explanation for the raw material costs, you brought it up twice now, i can talk about it, and explain it, your smart enough to get it, but i think that your actually going to miss.

but you get first crack, with your imaginary, and invisible measuring device.

I know how you do the raw materials costs. I will explain it when you tell me why your conclusions on data have been as blatantly wrong as your statement linking the entirety of government costs to salaries. Do I even need to recap how wrong your conclusions have been?

Your rock in the water comment should have considered which pond you were throwing the stone into.

You said transportation costs were an example of a salary difference:

"so my lower salaries, largely compensates for my higher consumption quality, in the case of government costs.

This becomes more evident with we look closely at the transportation index."

Until you dialed it back (who does draw a salary for transportation anyway...):

"90-95% of the total trans cost is material."

You said high quality consumption adds to government costs but missed an opportunity to reiterate you buy materials reflected in P

Oh, you cited Business 101 earlier. I took that course. I also took more advanced business courses, Business Law, several economics courses, a marketing course, and an accounting class. I am more of a tech guy but I enjoy the business stuff. I can hold my own but if you want to show me something that is cool. I am still waiting to see something neat and shiny that retains its glow after you tell me about it.

aries, this argument was over before it began

i of course wanted to make a point, i did that, but i was also aware, before i started this, you would not agree with a thing i said. this has been a constant event for over 6 months.

my arguments are valid, based on legitimate sim-stats, that all players use to measure the success of their countries. and i have demonstrated the relation of salaries, and high and low quality country supplies effect on country production, costs, and profit.

how ever, the discussion is now concluded, i will not be dragged into an argument, that will only continue until it is undignified. but you are welcome to post anything you want.

so, are we gonna discuss my raw material costs? or not? it was your point, not mine, but i'd be happy to discuss it. ironically, its something you do better than me, when i looked at it closer, i realized i shouldn't be doing it, or doing it anot

I believe there is a large segment of players who simply delve deep enough into the game to have a pretty pet country. They upload a pretty president pic, they make their map nice, and spend plenty of time coming up with cute names for cities and towns.

Players who stop at the Profit & Loss page and don't truly understand it. Players who are content with making that page nice. They are one step past the first group. If you will be their champion, so be it.

Me? I often don't bother to change my presidents picture. I have countries that still display the same name and pic they had when another player owned them, before I conquered it. I don't draw pretty maps, I go for function. I make decisions on government policy based on what nets the most assets, not what makes some select stats nice.

For those who truly would be interested in accumulating assets. For those who want to actually afford to deploy and maintain ma

and about the corp raw materials? that you brought up?

also, aries, are you actually throwing space trade up for econ discussion?

space station trade would not exist, except for me

i am Josias Jorvick, the Orbiter, master of space

something you know full well.

I will admit, we both do well there. Indeed, my income there has been useful for my investments in pop on LU. I think there is a bit more potential if the word gets out a bit. I continually point out to new players the benefits of looking to space and direct trade to get value of their coins rather than retrieving a paltry $30 billion each.

true to the thread theme....

i once had a player declare war on me, with the #1 and 2 war countries here on LU, against my 2 80M cash cows, that had 20 I-wings, and 10 H-wngs each.

but in the 48 hour waiting period, i moved so much hardware from WG, that it became a 1-2 versus 3-4 war, i was ready to duke it out for several days, as i felt the future of LU was at stake. that the other guy, who originally saw an econ prize, sued for peace. i excepted, because it meant i won with out a shot


also, you where their in chat, as it gave me the momentum to defeat my greatest rival, and tell Wendy to not let the door hit her, where the good lord split her...

it was epic, but in the past.

lets talk about the future of space trade, what do you have to say?

Space trade is going to be driven by demand. The expensive nature of docks remains a limitation for buyers and sellers. I'd like to see a way where either the game or players can remove this cost for buyers.

If a seller could chose to, say, label a dock they own a "buyers dock", that would help. Perhaps, if they have a "buyers dock" available, anyone who buys their goods and lacks their own space could use this area (if totally empty). Only one buyer could use the dock at a time. To encourage the buyer to move their goods, a lease would kick in after 24 hours should they not empty the dock, making it available for the next buyer.

interesting, not sure i'm for or against that, from an outside view, ok, but who buys the docks and offers them? you know the GM wont, if they would, then why wouldn't they just lower the price?

seriously, until it becomes more popular, docks, and rental should be 1/5 what they are now. in a couple of years, when the game popularity improves, return them to the current prices... but jeese the cost now is just to much

i say that, while i own over 40, that i've made from space trade. i know the potential is their, the cost is holding us back.

You obviously have the ability and I would purchase a few docks just to use in that way. It offers enough of an incentive as a seller that it just may be worth it. At the same time, it eases new buyers into space trade that benefits this game feature overall for everyone.

and when i say the cost is to much, GAME MASTERS, i've proven it

but aries, i'd need to undue something we agreed on, to expand, and we agreed on that, on my side, because i don't want the daily chore... i can wait for February

where you brag about your income, my income is sufficient to undercut your space prices, for over a year, before i run out. and by then, i'd probably be able to find another partner, that i can pass a few econ tricks to, (like i'd use them up in this thread,) this is not a challenge, rather, a call.

i posted on the trade thread, that basically i needed help keeping up with space trade. and you bought in. i was happy, we where once in the same fed, you where a newb in an elite fed that rallied around me in a time of trouble. i saw you start in cervus, i was joyed

then when i let my sales go, i noticed you raising prices. it irritated me. i'd sacrificed allot to generate business, i noticed that once my prices reached a certain level,

That post hit a little of everywhere. Guess I will respond to a few.

1. We both could renew a price war. We both could survive one. Neither of us could "win" a price war.

2. Did you not make this thread to brag? You started by highlighting your finance rank and Profit & Loss which I let go until you reiterated a statement you made on my teaching thread that has proved assuredly false.

3. You said:

"i noticed that once my prices reached a certain level, my customer numbers multiplied."

So yes, we have both experimented with prices. Why would my experimentation make you irritated?

the first 2 are stand alone statements, that don't need to be qualified, or addressed,

but, i put allot into making space work, dropping prices until i had enough customers to pass on some of the business. i was watching you take advantage of a handful of players, while ruining the whole thing. so basically, i handed something over to you, that you where going to just ruin, ya, i was irritated.

I can assure you, no puppies were harmed.

But seriously, if we are both in space and selling something, how could I take advantage of anyone? The core issue remains the same though. Particularly, the lack of buyers exacerbated by the cost of entry. More buyers would lead to more sellers and eventually a more stable market environment than one with a shortage of both buyers and sellers.

which is my point, raising prices, discourages buyers

since space was created, players have complained about docking costs, and back then, you could spend the night raiding C3s, convert the cash to GC and get a dock or 2. now, thats impossible, but the GM consider the potential income, worth the buy in cost.

this is partially true, my 40+ docks, amount to more than 8000GC in sales, all from space. this does not count what i've spent on professionals, registration, and pop.

but the bottom line fact, is that their isn't enough volumn, to justify the buy in for more than a couple of players.

Working on something constructive. Just tried to put together what I know about government costs. This is my worksheet of data. Worked quick to gather everything in the same game month. Have anything to add to this?

Total Government Costs 254,662.91M SC$ (From P&L)

Social Security Costs 36,508.75M SC$ (From P&L)

Social Security Quality Index 88.11
Current Social Security Percentage of Low Level Worker Salary 73 %
Yearly Social Security Payments 13,738 SC$
Number of retired People 18,254,112
Number of disabled People 6,899,871
Number of unemployed People 6,356,626

General Cost of Government 60,889.49M SC$ (From P&L)

Health Costs 59,017.79M SC$ (From P&L)

Known Material Costs $20.85 Billion
Salary Costs $16.92 Billion
Unfound Costs $21.23 Billion

Medical Equipment 12,419.65M SC$ 201 (From Spen

Just occurred to me that Gasoline is missing. Units use it, so it is likely a component of Defense costs.

for the professionals, i found in the game news that it says they do, draw salaries.

schools and hospitals use more than nurse and teachers and such, LLW and HTX, did you add those in?

Thanks.

Hospitals 2883

Each / Total / Monthly Income / Total

310 LLWs 893,730 1333.33 $1.20 Billion
280 MLWs 807,240 1706.67 $1.38 Billion
230 HLWs 663,090 2080 $1.38 Billion
240 LLMs 691,920 2506.67 $1.73 Billion
150 MLMs 432,450 3360 $1.45 Billion
75 HLMs 216,225 4213.33 $0.91 Billion
12 EXEs 34,596 9066.67 $0.31 Billion
122 HTEs 351,726 3360 $1.18 Billion
26 HTSs 74,958 5146.67 $0.39 Billion
7 HTXs 20,181 10400 $0.21 Billion

Total $10.14 Billion

Updated Health

Health Costs 59,017.79M SC$ (From P&L)

Known Material Costs $20.85 Billion
Salary Costs $27.06 Billion
Unfound Costs $11.11 Billion


Schools 70508

Each / Total / Monthly Income / Total

8 LLW 564,064 1333.33 $0.75 Billion
12 MLW 846,096 1706.67 $1.44 Billion
1 MLM 70

I thought we were drinking single malt Scotch and then seeing how far we could launch a stream.

Boy is my face red.