Anyone want to make a bet on when US goes bankrupt? (Fearless Blue)

I would give the US 3-5 years before they're whole economy comes crashing down.

It comes down to the fact money is created from thin air by banks against DEBT. Stupidest system ever created and started from deception by money lenders.

Remove debt, you remove money.

Money = Debt

Alternatives anyone?

Umm maybe go communist? Haha jk jk.

http://international-proletariat.webs.com//PdAI%20Mani.pdf
Here's my official solution to the problem (click on the link above). I posted this one in the forum before. I am just trying to raise awareness of this system that I invented. I call it "Proletariat Internationalism". I spend the first 3 chapters basically insulting and bashing all the existing economic systems, and then I introduce my own system. The sales pitch is that there is no limit to the industrial and military power of a proletariat internationalist state, nor is there poverty, hunger, or homelessness; only labor, freedom, and an opportunity for all to achieve greatness. Theoretically, this will all be true of such a state, if it ever gets adopted by any nation.

Not having read it (Busy atm ) but any system based on labour is doomed. Automation is key. Computers will do it all. Need a system that allows for this.

Machines take jobs away from humans. They may be more efficient, but what will the workers do? Idle workers don't contribute anything. You gotta give them something to do. To create more jobs, we need to ditch the machines and just do it the old-fashioned way. That would also make the fruits of the labor all the more sweet when they get home after a day, hard at work.

Haha, SP is a luddite!

Get real.

the world needs to discontinue this obsession with wealth, asap.

+1 Garry Freeman!

Uh, Billy Bob, in response to your post saying that Japan would ally with China, that will only happen when PRC takes control of Japan and kills of the people. Because while China tolerates American, and barely likes most of it's neighbors on the mainland, they HATE the Japanese. They have a long memory, and until the Emperor of Japan himself admits to the wrongdoings that Imperial Japan inflicted on China during WWII, China will be happy just wiping them out.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Machines take jobs away from humans. They may be more efficient, but what will the workers do? Idle workers don't contribute anything. You gotta give them something to do. To create more jobs, we need to ditch the machines and just do it the old-fashioned way. That would also make the fruits of the labor all the more sweet when they get home after a day, hard at work. <!-/Quote-!>

The point of machines is that we don't have to work. Get a hobbie and enjoy life. I know it's hard to imagine a life without a 'job' because we have been in that situation for so many years.

We need to embrace automation but within a non-labour economy. Become thinkers, scientists, fathers and mothers.

When machines can think for themselves might be the time to start worrying about all this. Until then I love taking machines apart, fixing them, or demolishing them in the most creative way I can think of

Oh yes, I most certainly sound most intelligent advancing a date for the US's bankruptcy and half-assed concoctionned reasons. Either that or an idiot.

If there is no labor, nobody gets anything out of it. You never get paid, so you don't have any money to spend (assuming a capitalistic scenario). If big companies want to exploit us, why not work us to death while they're at it? They can at least be honest about exploiting our hard labor, instead of hiding their greed in advertisements and in salary cuts, and having machines, who they don't even need to pay, manufacture everything. The least they can do is pay actual human workers to labor all day while they take advantage of us and backstab us! At least we would be doing something productive.

Wouldn't your shit be better put to use on your self-sustaining vegetable patch SP?

Crafty, you never stop picking on people, do you? After this post, I am never going to dignify you with an answer on any posts you make. I'm sick of you, so I am going to ignore you.

Now does anybody else have anything to say that might actually be worth my attention?

SP when I refer to a different system, i do refer to a system other then a capitalist one.

Or a capitalist system that doesn't focus on labour. Labour is only going to get smaller while the population gets bigger.

The farming industry held 80% of the work force once. now holds 3% (due to automation)

Most of the labour moved to services and now that is becoming automated (ATMs, Automatic ticketers, internet, entire factory made replaceable units that don't require servicing (like iphones, even fridges and other white goods don't require services, just replace) etc)

What industry can we open up for labour now? I don't see a labour market thriving in the future.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

A social, political and economic movement that aims for an establishment of a classless and stateless communist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and which abolishes the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.<!-/Quote-!>

The definition, at least in theory, of the above sounds pretty good. Guess what it is?

The problem with the above is bad leadership.

There has to be a better system. Right?

Another one of the problems people bring up in a non capitalism system is the lack of technological advance due to greed for money being such a strong motivator (I agree it is. I'm a business owner and money drives me to expand and work.

But saying that. Some of the best scientists, inventors and thinkers have come from people not looking for money or have any interest in it.

Surely there would be enough people like this to advance technology and ideas without money incentive?

Haha, you should listen to yourself SP, you yak absolute bollocks and then say I am picking on people (no, only you) when I express my contempt of your ignorance.

I do not suffer fools gladly, never have and never will. Grow up and get some life experience, get a job, get a family, mortgage, insurances, responsibilities, and you might find your naive hippy outlook changes.

But anyway, it's not for me to attempt to stop you posting, but it's not for you to deny me my opinion either, so live with it.

And raging pencil, I found most academics (scientists, engineers, etc) do it purely for the thirst for knowledge, agreed, not the quest for money. Unfortunately they need funding, their work can only be done at a cost, most all research is sponsored by big business who ultimately expect a reward for their investments... (see the pharma industry). The days of the home alchemist or wheel inventing caveman are over, with some rare exceptions. Also, you seem to get the impression that a manual workforce is disappearing, where do you get that information from when any developed country is crying out for people who can actually DO things, engineers, doctors, chemists, computer programmers etc etc. Having any of those sorts of skills is half the ticket to getting citizenship in the UK, the US, Australia, and those are only 3 I personally know about. Thats what is happening as technology and civilisation advances (?), ok we dont need so many coal miners or fruit pickers, but we do need more blue collar.

I agree labour is still in demand. But as you know, 6 billion people in 1999 and now 7 billion by the end of october. Thats a huge increase in just over a decade.

Do you really expect the labour market to continue to grow in future years?

Our labour based market is holding back automation for obvious reasons and I honestly don't see another booming labour industry where humans can't be replaced.

Look at the car manufacturing business. Mostly done my robots now with only supervisors monitoring. It wasn't that long ago when it was 100% human labour.

It's hard to grasp but being replaced doesn't have to be a bad thing like the scifi movies. It could make our lives far better dispite our seemingly built-in drive to work and earn money.

Remove money completely? Let the thinkers and scientists find cures for our problems, build new technology etc for purely this 'thurst for knowledge' as you mention.

If in 50 years I can get on my computer (i'll be 75 then lol), order some food and a new car and let machines grow, build and deliver it to my door, then why not? I can sit at home all day and play simcountry, right? (joke, i'll be teaching my grandson to fish)

Anyway, it's interesting to think about it.

Good night!

Maybe the world needs to raise its education index

The US will just print more money. No need to go bankrupt....

Only problem is it doesn't solve the monetary system problems and will only delay it and make it worse in the future. Oh and not to mention that the dollar will drop in value but a completely ridiculous amount. Which Im sure you wouldnt want.

Really, Pencil? Please expound. Lest you all forget, taxes can be raised too, they don't only go down.

I thought the danger of quantative easing was inflation LG. I dont see how taxes compensate for that, but then I have a poor grasp of economics.