JMR32/FarmerBob

I have granted you top billing, sir, as your profession is much more prestigeous than mine.

So how was the cruise? My turn to be jealous as I couldn't get my wife onto an aircraft carrier with a gun, sedatives, and a straight jacket. The woman is absolutely terrified of the ocean.

To continue where we left off. I completely grasp your view of flying. I know my dad would have loved for his son to have been a pilot like himself, but that certain instinctual grasp of speed and space necessary for a competent aviator is utterly lacking in me. I used to hate when the airdales would get their monthly NOE time in prior to a jump. Puking paratroopers in an enclosed space is something I will never miss.

As to your domestic arrangements, who the hell has the right to judge anyone for that sort of thing? If the two of you are happy, that's all that matters.

On being a honest-to-God, for-real, gettin' paid and everything, writer: you have my undying respects. Having started and aborted numerous attempts at a novel over the years, the ability to write is something for which I have tremendous admiration. My own style might charitably be termed "pedantic". I've always felt that I wrote like Charlton Heston spoke. Know what I mean?

Read your posts in the economic debate and we are of like mind. Common sense is the absence of slavery to ideology in my view on such matters. No one has figured it all out and invented the "perfect" system. The argument is lovely, however. Truth most frequently lies somewhere in the middle.

I would love get your take on the profession of journalism in all its forms and formats. Having served through the 70-90's, I reserve that special military distrust and revulsion at the American media, so I won't even pretend to be unbiased on the subject.

At any rate, wonderful to have you back safely.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Regards,
Bob

Wow, getting top billing is scary! My preference is to fly below the radar, that way people are always underestimating me!
It's a shame your wife has a fear of the ocean. If it were just a matter of motion sickness I'd be able to convince her it's not a problem on today's liners. But a phobia is a horse of a different color. I have a touch of that myself. One of the things Julie has been at me for years to do is skydive with her. I see NO reason to hop out of a perfectly good airplane. Hell, I have to close my eyes on a roller coaster!
With regards to writing, it's something I've always wanted to do. Like you, I started, and trashed, dozens of efforts at novels. And hundreds of short stories. Charlton Heston was among my favorite celebrities, but I have to agree with your assessment of his conversational skills.
Like to make a suggestion. Rather than trying to be the next Charles Dickens, why not start a journal? Put in your family stories, your memories of your growing up, your life experiences. Things like where and how you met your wife, etc. You may never actually publish it, but it will accomplish several things: It will be incredibly easy to do (you won't need creativity, as it will be stuff you experienced firsthand), it will put on paper all the rich history of your family (which might otherwise be lost forever), it will provide an insight for future generations of your family as to how things were in Great-great-granddad's time, and a hundred years from now historians will DROOL over it because so few people write down all the everyday events in their lives. In example, the thoughts of Bobby Lee and U.S. Grant are certainly important, but the real history comes from the guy sitting around the campfire writing home the night before charging the hill at Fredericksburg. BTW, that operation should be required reading for every cadet at the Point as to how NOT to plan a battle! What a disaster.
Keep your media opinions intact, I have the same feelings. In fact, on the cruise the only news station available on TV was CNN, and I spent so much time hollering at the announcers that Julie finally wouldn't let me watch it for fear of complaints from the people next door.
My writing focuses very little on politics, although that's one of my favorite debate topics. I deal mainly with history and travel, although I will branch out into other subjects if I have time and some interest. The majority of my sales are to online pubs (God bless the internet!), but as my "portfolio" increases it has become easier to sell to hard copy magazines. Lots of people are turned off by the fact that the pay is not great (the most I've ever received from any one article is 100 bucks, the average is 25), but considering I can knock out a 2000 word article in about an hour and a half including research time it pays.
Need to close this up for now, have to pick Mom up. Thanks again for the kind words and thoughts. Think about that journal. Writing fiction and being successful at it is a MAJOR bear, and if your name isn't Tom Clancy it's almost impossible to get a publisher to take you seriously.
Warm regards,
JMR32

Robert. An excellent suggestion. The only obstacle I must overcome, is my tendency to intellectually step back and look for the "big picture." I believe your assessment of the future interest in the minutae of life is spot on. Getting myself mentally disciplined to stay on topic, as it were, will be the main challenge.
Knowing myself, my thoughts would would quickly degenerate in to the philosophical pontifications of yet another egocentric old fool. A wonderful idea ,nonetheless, that I shall put into practice when things calm down around here.

As to your humility regarding your profession. Rubbish and other comments. You are paid for the expression of your thoughts which is a tremendous accomplishment for anyone. We all have opinions as well as defecatory orifices. You have managed to find someone who will compensate you for yours. The opinion, that is. LOL The other we "don't ask, and don't tell", I believe.
Whether on travel, the weighty matters of the world, or the mating habits of Norweigian Chipmunks, your insights have commercial value. My sincerest compliments.

I hope your family's medical issues are resolved to positive ends in short order. We, in the FarmerBob household, are under the same stresses this summer.

By all means, take your time with replies and at your leisure. I generally only check in to SC in the wee hours myself for a short while due to present circumstances.

Thanks again for push in a productive direction and I look forward to hearing from you when you can spare a few minutes.

Warm Regards,
FarmerBob

FarmerBob,
I used the journal idea myself. It helps you to develop a "style" of writing. As with everything else, the more you do it the better you get. And I wouldn't worry too much about the obstacles or staying on topic. I have the same problem, in spades. My mind moves at light speed while my mouth and hands move at regular speed, so I'll be in the middle of a discussion and I end up "tangentializing" (that's a Bob original)into an entire new area.
Not to sound like an obnoxious professor, but use your tendencies to your advantage. Break your journal down into sections. Have a section for the "big picture". Have another for your philosophy. So on and so forth. I somehow doubt you are an old fool. And ego is, contrary to popular opinion, NOT a bad thing! Every successful person who has ever lived has KNOWN they were good. If you don't have the self confidence to stand against the tide you will be buried. Most of the human race would rather drag all those around them down to their level instead of working to rise to new heights. Cynical, but unfortunately all too true. Try branching out into something new sometime and just listen to your friends and family come up with reasons why you can't,why it won't work, etc. Ego becomes bad only when it develops into megalomania or some such.
Better get off the soapbox here. Just to summarize, think of it in terms of your service time. Every unit you ever commanded had it's own strengths and weaknesses. Your job was to maximize those strengths and minimize the weaknesses. It works the same way in life.
Things on the home front are progressing well, thanks for the thoughts. Hopefully your situation will also stabilize, my prayers are with you and yours.
Mating habits of Norwegian chipmunks? I'm going to have to look into that! Somehow I just can't picture Alvin being horny!
One final note: If you are interested in the world situation, with an outlook that you will never see on CNN (or even Fox News for that matter)you might check out a website called 1913intel.com. It's one of my regular sources for out of the ordinary information. A few examples of the info I've picked up:
(1)They had an article about the Air Force nuke transfer mistake 6 months BEFORE it became headline news. Within a week of the actual occurrence.
(2)Did you know that China is planning a massive damming project on a river which runs into India that would effectively leave millions of Indians without water?
(3)A few years back South Korea surveyed the cadets at their version of West Point, and over 50% listed the US as the country's greatest enemy. The survey was repressed by the government and only recently released when the Commandant retired and went public. He blames the SK education system for improper portrayal of history, he claims textbooks are portraying the US involvement in South Korea as an imperialist maneuver.
Gotta run, hope I wasn't too abrasive. When I jump on that soapbox I sometimes forget myself!
Warm regards,
JMR32

On a completely different note, I understand that your wife is Italian. Unfortunately about the only words I know in the language are "buono sera" and "grazi".
Visited Venice back in the 90's. Very interesting city. One of the things I thought unusual were the shops. Big signs in the window of a lot of them "Only enter to buy". They displayed their wares in the window, along with pricing, and if you walked in you were expected to purchase. Gives meaning to the term "window shopping".
I also got snarled at by a clerk for wanting to buy a ticket for an attraction with a bill way too large (apparently). Went up to the window, laid my Lira down, he said something, I mimed that I didn't understand, he said loudly "smaller", holding up the bill. When I couldn't come up with anything smaller he went into a rant. I THINK I heard the word tourist in there, and I'm sure I didn't want to understand the rest. But I got my ticket, and a WHOLE LOT of small bills in change. Sort of like when you use a twenty to pay a dollar fare on the turnpike, you'll get 19 singles in change from some of the folks.
But all in all, I enjoyed my time in Italy. Some really outstanding food to be had there.
'Nuff for now. Things are copacetic around here, so I'll be heading back home on Monday. Have a great weekend!
JMR32

Thank you for the reference to that most interesting site, Robert. While I distrust most "news" outlets as sources of objective information in general and those on the web in particular, a private source news blog as this one is intriguing. The documentation of this individual's intel take is broad and diverse, and he seems to put the pieces together quite rationally. I smell a current or former intel weenie at work here. Will have to monitor his activities over the long haul to see how his track record pans out.

LOL at your Italian experiences. The French have nothing on them for rudeness. The only difference I ever noted was that they remained obnoxious even after you showed them the money.
Italy is a strange country. The cities can be as different as night and day, especially regarding Americans. Forget about the linguistical challenges. Every 20 steps is a new dialect. Half of the country can't comprehend the other half, and even Sicilians can't understand themselves.LOL

My wife is from one of those tiny little "God Father" villages outside Catania, Sicily. I met her in Naples, however, when she was at "university". Have to tell you that whole story sometime.

Don't fret about "lecturing" me. You have the exerience and expertise as a wordsmith, and answered several questions before I could ask them. We'll get into this in detail when I start this journal project. Did you catch the blog feature W3C is proposing? Might have to make use of that.

My personal fear is to not become a "joke" like the many retired old fools I catch on the news as Expert Consultants. They know damned well that they don't have the full intel picture on any operation to make any sort of informed commentary. I was so dead wrong myself prior to our latest gulf adventure, I still can't believe it. I was telling anyone who listen at the time that we weren't really going into Iraq. Sadam must have been getting squirrelly and we were putting forces in theater as a deterent while we focused on Afghanistan was my line. I simply could not believe that our top leadership would be dumb enough to get us into a two front conflict when we barely had the force levels to handle one. Lost $100 to a golf buddy when they kicked off. At any rate, retired Colonel's tend to be a sad lot. Many are pissed off at never having gotten their star and feel the need to prove to the world what great generals they would have been. Pathetic. I would just hate to join their ranks. Every soldier has had experiences, some have thought a lot about them and tried to draw forth lessons, others just use them as an ego trip. Ever read Hal Moore's book? They even made a halfway decent movie from it. Couldn't believe it. They didn't emphasize some of Moore's most relevant points, but for Hollywood, it wasn't a bad effort. Got to shake the General's hand once at a Dinning In. Great Soldier. There were a bunch from that era. Too bad they aren't around now to help with the current mess.

Well. Enough pontificating for now.
Glad to hear that the home situation is good. Ours is looking better. The little guy is responding well and we seem to be over the major hurdles. Thanks for the kind thoughts.

Regards.
Bob

PS If the Bob's get too confusing, I could start using my old call sign.LOL God Bless.

Okay Robert,
Many apologies for the long delay in getting back to you.
Start by covering the points in your post.
I got the same take on 1913intel as you, and I'm betting he's a current intel weenie. He seems young, and his wife just had their first child about a year ago. He was out for a week and mentioned that was the reason. I've been on his site for a few years, he seems to have things down fairly well. Point of fact, he ran an Israeli intel article prior to Gulf II starting which reported massive Iraqi convoys crossing the border in Syria. Also reported the presence of Russian special forces operating in the northern region. Interesting?
I will bow to your superior knowledge regarding Italy. I only spent the time in Venice, so I'm limited. Spot on for the French in the big cities. I've had some "experiences" in Paris. But I have a take on the French, if you can stand a story. I was stationed in Germany back in the late 70s-early 80s. I was at a Gasthaus one day downing a few and chowing on jagerschnitzel mit pomme frites, and I started flirting with a REAL good looking brunette sitting by herself a couple tables over. Ended up buying her a drink and making a date. Turned out her name was Yvette, she was French, and was living in Germany "slumming" for a couple years before going back to France to find a husband. Fast forwarding a bit, we were an "item" for almost two years, she went home about the same time I left for Knox. Now I had 4 years of French in high school, so I thought I was pretty good. (I'm not fluent in any language but the basics come easy to me.) But whenever I tried to talk to her in French she insisted on English. Finally I asked her if my French was that bad. Here's what she told me: "Technically you speak it well, but you just don't have the right attitude." And what does that have to do with it, asks Bob. "To be French, and to speak French, you have to KNOW that not only does the world revolve around France, the entire universe revolves around France." And that, my friend, sums up the French world (excuse me, UNIVERSE) view. On the other hand, she took me back to her home one time for a weekend. Her folks were farmers in the Alsace region. Good Lord, those people eat! And eat well. Had to run double PT for a week to work it off! On another occasion I took a week annual and we went to the Med region. Completely different attitude down there, people weren't exactly friendly, but they were not nasty. Those times are some of my favorite memories. We both knew it was a short term "live for the moment" relationship, so there was no head game stuff, just fun. And it kept me out of the barracks rat routine that so many soldiers unfortunately fall into.
Next: Yes, I did note the blog feature, and I think it's a GREAT idea. Have not accessed it yet, but am planning to.
Your best bet is to stop watching the idiots on TV. I'm joking, maybe. An Expert Consultant is an oxymoron in today's media atmosphere. They will search far and wide for anyone who fits their preconceived agenda, without regard for any valid qualifications. Have you ever done jury duty? The defense will trot out a bunch of "expert" witnesses who will say one thing, then the prosecution will trot out a bunch of "expert" witnesses who will prove the exact opposite. The bottom line is all these "experts" are being paid for a specific opinion. There is nothing objective about any of it.
My feeling about Iraq is similar to yours, although I did think we would go, just not quite as soon as we did. The problem is our inability to use our force in the right way. We've got the greatest bunch of troops in the world, and we've got the best equipment in the world, including an almost untouchable Air Force. In Gulf I how many days did we bomb the crap out of them before we went swanning? (I THINK that was the name of one of our armored ops) In Gulf II we still kicked royal butt against the Iraqi army. But then we needed to lock the country down like we did Germany and Japan in WWII. We OCCUPIED those countries for years after. We told THEM when they could pee, and eat, etc. We told THEM what their government was going to be like, and what they had to do to get us off their backs. This pansy way we're operating didn't work in 'Nam, and it's running a hard road here too. When Fallujah erupted, the right answer was to send the bombers in, level it, THEN send the boys in to pick up the pieces. And sorry, I don't want to hear about the "Holy Islamic sites". Every 3rd house over there is a Holy site! Did the Taliban care about the Holy sites of Buddhism? Do the Muslim radicals who have burned hundreds of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues in Kosovo care? Stop. I can't help it. As a vet it sickens me when the leadership makes decisions based on political needs rather than what's good for the troops. Men and women have died that didn't need to, and that's the most disheartening thing of all. The insurgency could have been stopped dead in it's tracks if we had some cojones in the food chain. Where is Patton's reincarnation at? We need him.
Gotten WAY off target here. Warned you in an earlier post about my "tangentializing". You've just been baptized! One last statement and I'll move on. Every time before an Iraqi election, they closed the borders, and every time violence has dropped. We know that weapons and manpower are flowing in from Iran and Syria. Can anyone tell me why the borders were not secured first thing? The US won't secure our own borders, so I guess it's asking too much to secure the borders in a war zone.
Whew. Take a deep breath. That's better. As a matter of fact I HAVE read Hal Moore's book, and it's excellent. What was the name of the movie? I must have missed it. I'm jealous you got to meet him. I got to meet the German general who was in charge of Monte Cassino in WWII when I was a teenager. My Dad worked for the government, and there was this dinner where the general was the guest of honor. Actually a pretty nice guy. He was an Austrian officer when Hitler annexed the country, and if your choice is serve or die there's not much room for maneuver. Another story (I'm throwing the stories in just to show you how easy it is to come up with them): As I said, my Dad worked for the government, and frequently liased with the higher echelons of the military, ours and others. My growing up was surrounded by Majors, light birds, full birds, and a few generals. When I was making my college choices in high school I narrowed it down to Arizona State (I was born a couple miles from there), University of Iowa (obvious reasons), Michigan State Univ. (they offered me a 50% academic scholarship), and West Point (my family has a history of military service, but no officers). I visited ASU, Iowa, and MSU. I wasn't too impressed with Iowa, the campus is mixed in with the town. ASU had some hot women walking around but the guide was a prime jerk. MSU was fantastic. The day came for my visit to the Point. A full bird Colonel with driver picked us up, drove to the campus, showed us around, ate a meal in the cafeteria, and took us to a football game between Army and Holy Cross. Army got stomped, then we drove back home. Here's the funny part. My four years in high school the football team had gone 1-38-1, and there was no way I was going someplace where the football team got stomped! So MSU it was. Ironically four years later after leaving MSU I joined the Army as an enlisted man. Might have been different if Army had won that game! Sadly, my Dad passed away right before my Sophomore year, so he couldn't give me an "I told you so". And it was only AFTER joining that I realized that he was as high up the food chain as he was, because only then did I realize what Colonels and Generals were.
Back to you for a short, then I'm going to close. NEVER worry about becoming a "joke". What anyone besides your family and friends think is not relevant. And sometimes it's not relevant what your family and friends think either. As I mentioned before, most of the human race can only justify their pitiful existence by trashing others. It gives them a feeling of power to try to emotionally damage someone else. Negativity breeds negativity, and if you are unable to rise above the fray and say "ain't nothing but a ham sandwich and an ice cream cone" you're doomed to mediocrity. And DON'T ask me to explain that saying, I only know that's what everybody in my unit in Germany said whenever one of you officers ruined our weekend by calling an alert!
Wonderful to hear your scene is improving! Thoughts and prayers continue on this end.
Regards,
Bob
Didn't realize I'd written a novel. Ought to charge you 15 or 20 bucks! God Bless.

After rereading my last post, I'll point out a couple things. The story about West Point is a good example of how NOT to write. The story itself is a good one, but the presentation pretty much sucked. If I would have spent some time proof reading I would have gotten rid of those parenthetical notations and worked the info into a coherent fashion. The flow doesn't seem right to me on rereading either. I'll blame it on the fact that it's 0428 here and I need sleep, got to help Julie move some furniture in about 6 hours.

That's one of my areas of weakness, too much parenthetical notation breaks up the reader's concentration and messes up the flow.
Also should have done more paragraphing through the post. Another point of success is to be able to constructively critique your own work. Striving for perfection is required, acheiving it is elusive. The ability to recognize your weaknesses is the first step in overcoming them.
And a whole bunch of other cliches!
Until next time,
Bob

Robert. Will get back to you Sunday. Much to reply to.lol
Bob

You touched on many great points, Robert. Due to time constraints, I will will reply to each in turn over the next several days.

My problem with our military operations over the last 15 years has been that our combat capabilities for offensive actions have become out of proportion to our sustainability for defensive actions. In layman's terms, we can destroy like other no force in history, but we can't hold the ground we take. Not enough trained grunts that are the backbone for sustained occupation operations. I got into hot water in the early 90's for proposing a TOE for specialized "peacekeeping and occupation" brigades built around military police MOS's rather than infantry. The use of good combat units in COTW, Conflicts Other Than War (God knows how out of date that term is), is a morally bankrupt policy that is unworthy of our troops and those we would pupport to aid. Grunts make lousy cops. No fault of theirs, but the demands of these operations with the political restrictions under which American forces operate today require a maturity that challenges experienced NCO's and officers, much less teen aged troops who have barely mastered the basics of their profession. Once upon a time, mistakes and poor judgement calls would have negligible consequences for the troops involved. Today, however, we operate under a microscope with worldwide news coverage and near total transparency.
War is nasty, brutal, and utterly unforgiving towards noncombatants caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Always has been and likely always will be. That kind of reality is not accepted by our population, civilian and senior military leadership, or the news media. Our kids pay the price for that misconception, however. They are expected to be more police officer than combat soldier. A recipe for disaster. Troops will always look after their own units survival above all else. Such is human nature and damned sound military sense.

The current strategic debacle is unforgivable. Did we learn nothing from Vietnam?. No. A poor question. Did we willingly throw away all that we learned from Vietnam and made part of our military culture for 2 generations?

1. We cannot instil our values into a foreign population without destroying a sizable percentage of it first, utterly crushing any potential resistance to our political will, and completely isolating said population from outside support or influence. WWII and its immediate aftermath were historical anomalies.

2. Given a relatively secure logistical base from which to operate, an active insurgency can and will last forever.

3. American values are not inherent to most cultures no matter how much we may wish them to be. Humans have much in common, but those who would lead others most often embrace our basest instincts. The historical exceptions are societies which have sought to improve the human condition. The opposite has been and is the norm.

What to do about the War on Terror?
I don't know, but the current course is a disaster. Too many good kids are paying the price for our arrogance and sacrificing themselves for policies that cannot work. God bless them all.

All the hype about the "greatest generation" over the last few years has sickened me. It takes nothing away from those heroes who defeated the Axis powers to say that the Vietnam vets and the current generation of kids are every bit as dedicated and worthy of respect. The WWII vets never claimed superiority to subsequent generations to the best of my knowledge, and to do such in their name would be an insult to all that they fought for.
The kids fighting today are as good or better than any who have served before them and I could not be more proud of them.

Wow. My own little book in progress here.

More to follow.

Linebacker Six. Out.

Won't throw any new items onto the table, but just wanted to let you know I'm reading. Some great points in there, but I'll give you a chance to finish with the batch before I carry on. Will say that I agree with your "greatest generation" take. It seems to me that every generation in American history is equal to the nomenclature. The first generations, who gave up all they had to come here and tame a wild land (my apologies to the native Americans, I wish we would have found a better way), the generation who gave us our independance, the generation who fought on both sides in the Civil War, the generations who turned the USA into the industrial giant which allowed the WWII generation to perform as they did, and so on and so forth. I have incredible respect for the WWII folks, who survived the worst worldwide depression in recorded history, only to step into the horror of the worst world war in recorded history. Incidentally, the label of WWI and WWII really isn't accurate. It depends on the definition you use for a world war. I'll just mention that there were numerous wars throughout history which would fit the term.
Okay, darn it, I said I would add no new ideas!
Romeo Papa out.

Pardon the interruption.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Incidentally, the label of WWI and WWII really isn't accurate. It depends on the definition you use for a world war. I'll just mention that there were numerous wars throughout history which would fit the term.<!-/Quote-!>

The Punic Wars. Over a century of genocide, betrayal, and salting the earth over the ruins of your enemies homeland. Excellent choice for the First World War.

Again apologies please continue.

Sorry for the delay, Robert. Very busy at the farm these days.

On a more personal note. I will share my West Point "experience" with you as well.

I graduated from high school in the late 60's and faced a similar dilema. Being a fairly successful football player, I had coaches with scholarship offers breathing down my neck and my old man was really pushing for me to try for an appointment to the Point. The head coach there was also very interested and arranged a visit in my senior year. I didn't rate a field grade driver, however, LOL. Just the Coach and a couple of players. The virtues of the MA were extolled to me endlessly from the moment of my arrival UNTIL I got alone with the player/cadets.
Some great things I was told in locker room:

1. Don't come here. All we do is work our asses off and get chewed out.
2. Don't come here. Go to a REAL college and f#$%
hippie chicks.
3. Are you insane? Do you see any GIRLS here?
4. Do you know what the life expectancy of 2nd LT's is in Vietnam?

Needless to say, the message was received Lima Charlie.
Unlike you, however, I didn't have the good sense to go straight to college. I was sick of school and books and didn't want to be a "pussy" and hide from Vietnam. LMFAO. What a stupid punk kid I was. Therefore, I snuck off to a recruiter and joined the Airborne Infantry. The E7 who ran that station actually took pity on me without my knowing it. By "guiding" me into the 82nd, he was actually doing what he could to keep me out of Nam. I was just too dumbassed at the time to realize it. End of story, Dad was pissed off for about 5 years and I was well on my way to completely F@#$ing up my life.

Chapter 2 will be my next dumbass maneuver as a young enlisted guy. Care to guess what that was?


By all means, we aren't following a script here. Kick in whatever you wish to the conversation, whenever the mood strikes you. We can always get back to other points later.

Will try to get more in later.
Regards.,
Bob

PS. Sam. Join in if you like. Just a couple of old farts shooting the S@#$ here.

Hey, I resemble that remark about old farts! Or something like that. I was about a half decade behind you in school, the fall of Saigon took place the year I graduated. Had to get a draft number, but they weren't calling any those days. My Dad wanted me to K two birds with one S, our family had a military tradition, but NO one had ever gone to college right out of high school. My Dad had gotten his degree from Oklahoma, but it was through correspondence courses and a summer semester on campus.
Funny you mention being sick of school and books. I wasn't sick, just bored. Our family moved to our current location from Japan the summer before I went into 8th grade. The state is supposed to have a good educational system, but it didn't compare to the DOD schools. I had taken French I and Algebra I in 7th grade, but French II and Algebra II were only for 9th graders here, period. My folks fought the district but didn't win, they got told to put me in a private school if they didn't like the rules. Additionally, the textbooks they used for science and english were the same ones I had in 6th grade overseas. I got so bored I deliberately did not study or bring any books home, just to make it a challenge. Until 11th grade, when I finally got into some new things. Took a long time to redevelop good study habits. The only thing that really saved me my last two years was my voracious reading habits. I read so much, in so many different fields, that I had a basic understanding before walking into the classroom.
What an egotist I sound like! Better come back to earth. I can see where the lack of girls on campus at the Point would be a problem, especially since I don't think you got much time off campus your first year. It crossed my mind also; like most 18 year olds I was a horny toad.
I could guess what chapter two holds, but I'd rather stay in suspense. File it when you have time.
Regards,
Bob
@the Aztec/Toltec/Mayan God of War: Spot on with your opinion of a good start point for world wars. I agree with Farmer, jump in if you want. I've followed many of your comments on other parts of the forum, your in-game persona is intriguing to say the least. Were you aware that Quetzalcoatl was the name of an actual Toltec ruler? Credited with inventing the calendar, and developing the method of farming corn? Among other stuff. The Toltecs were some bad dudes and dudettes. Walked all over the Mayans and subjugated them, and the Mayans were no slouches themselves. Visited Chichen Itza once. One piece of art definitely freaked me. It was a mural of a post battle celebration, with the sacrifices, etc.
The freaky thing was that the Toltec nobility was into masochism. They are depicted slicing themselves in a ritual bloodletting. A woman is shown running a strand of thorns through her tongue, a man shown running one through his..., yep that's right. Some boys and girls I DON'T want to meet in a dark alley when they're in a bad mood!

Now I'm going to begin your lessons in "journalese" and give you a critique on your last post, since what you've written would make a good journal entry.
The story about the Point was excellent! The only thing I might change if it were in an official journal would be to refer to "f'ing" the hippie chicks in a more oblique way. Use "make" hippie chicks. Don't want any more "Grandpa, what's an asshat" episodes! LOL.
The next section needs a touch of work. Absolutely drop the "what a stupid punk kid I was". At that point in your life it was the decision you made using the best info you had available at the time. Replace that sentence with something along the lines of: "Being an idealistic teen, reality hadn't intruded into my thoughts and life yet." It basically says the same thing, but now the reader will feel empathy with you instead of saying to themselves "Hey, he admits he was a stupid punk kid, so he's probably just a stupid punk Grandpa now. Can't change a leopard's spots, you know." All of us were idealistic at one point. We were gonna change the world, we were going to make a difference. For most of us reality rears up and bites us on the arse somewhere along the way. So one way of writing it gets people on your side, the other way biases them against you.
Similar vein with the last half of the last sentence. Love the part about Dad being pissed for 5 years. Again, rephrase the part about completely f'ing up your life. Something like "I was well on the way to discovering I had fallen into a DEEP hole without a rope; what the hell had I gotten myself into?" Can you see the difference the tone makes?
Take all this in the manner I'm giving it. I'm not telling you that you suck. On the contrary, there IS definitely ability there. Your flow is good, and the experiences are of definite interest. Just pay some attention to how you portray yourself. Get a touch of the French attitude. What you have to say is valuable, if not for today then for the future.
Make it happen!

LOL Robert. You have obliquely identified one of my difficulties in communicating, both written and verbal.
My upbringing and return to life in a rural area has affected my "style" as well as my outlook towards people. Given my family history and relative "status" in our community here, I have always had to ensure that I did not put on airs with our neighbors. Conducting myself as one of the boys, as it were, helps to maintain my sense of community with those I share this area. Last night, I was called out to help some township workers clear two downed trees from a local road. As blue collar guys, you can imagine the language used as we accomplished this endevour in a rainstorm. Thusly, upon returning home and posting, my "infantry mouth" was in high gear. As you may have noticed from other posts elsewhere in these forums, I try not to come across as the uptight old man and attempt to write more for a younger, hipper audience. Of course, one does not spend 26 years in military service without earning an honorary PhD in Vulgarism. LOL. Therefore, your critique is right on the money; but, I felt it necessary to explain the reasoning, or lack thereof, behind the words.
I actually hadn't thought about the last post in terms of a journal entry, however. Your feedback is well taken. Chapter 2 will be crafted with an eye for the story telling and we shall see how I fare.

Thanks for the directional motivation. More to follow.

Warm regards.
Bob

Post Script. I am most assuredly a "stupid punk grandpa." LOL

Might be true, especially considering you're an ex-football jock! LOL. I'm confused. Since it's a scientific fact that football players are not allowed to have an IQ over 25, how did you get to be an officer? They need an IQ of 30.
Ouch, I'm nasty. On the real side, nothing wrong with being blue collar and one of the boys. One of the reasons for my success as an instructor at Knox was the ability to communicate with people from all kinds of socio-economic backgrounds. You had to, because what you were giving those kids could be the difference between life and death on the battlefield. If you couldn't get through to them the end result would be very bad when the caps started flying. Julie tells me frequently that I really should have been an actor because I have so many personas!
Back in the Victorian days what you're talking about was referred to as Noblesse Oblige. And it was a good thing. People are much more willing to follow someone who's "a good guy, not conceited at all, never throws his status in your face, gets down and dirty when he has to". So go right on being who you are. Just work on how you view yourself. Obviously you ended up being successful in life. Did you make every decision correctly along the way? DUH. Show me ONE person, religious figures excluded, who went through life without one bad decision, and I'll call you a liar. But think about this: every decision, right ones and wrong ones, contributed to making you who you are today. The critical aspect to making mistakes is to take something away from it in a learning capacity. Get burned from touching the stove? Learn not to touch it when it's on, and you're good to go. That's the main thing.
I believe in an infinite number of alternate universes. Every move we make, from deciding what time to get up in the morning, to deciding what to have for dinner, produces an infinite number of possible branches with an infinite number of results. So somewhere out there the Farmer went to West Point. And never met his wife because he made General and was stuck in the Pentagon for the rest of his life! Being a football player, he couldn't find the exit!
Man, I HATE when I get onto the psycho-babble tangent! But the stuff is true. Who and what you are is just that. If anybody out there can't handle it, tough shit, they don't have to deal with you then.
Here's my philosophy on humanity: 10% of people are "saints" (for lack of a better term), 10% of people are evil incarnate, and the other 80% are sheep who are influenced to a greater or lesser degree by the first two groups. I was never very good at saying baaaaaaaaa, so I belong to one of the leader groups. Your choice which one you think it is!
Need to get back to my countries and CEO.
Warm regards,
Bob
P.S. Got the point, punk? says he in his best Clint imitation! LOL

The football player jokes, I have heard them all my adult life. The irony is that I only played in high school. "Linebacker" was hung on me by my first battalion commander when I was new butter bar. It stuck through the rest of my career until I finally gave up and embraced it. The further irony is that I was a nosetackle and tight end. LOL Even last year, I had to argue with some kid at the gym that I was not some former NFL player from Baltimore. Well, being 6'5" and 250 has its benefits and drawbacks.
Incidently, the minimum IQ requirement for an officer is 45. Anything over 70 and one is considered overqualified and a threat to good military order and discipline.

Seriously, though, this conversation has taken me down some memory lanes that I haven't traversed in years. You mentioned youthful idealism as a motive for foregoing college or the Academy, but that really wasn't the case. Do remember what America was like back in the 60's?
You would have been a youngster then, but can you recall a sense of the national mood?

I recall quite clearly the lack of direction I felt amidst all the seeming turmoil. The civil rights movement was in full swing. Riots and protests seemed to be happening everywhere. The balloon could go up at any second with the communists. And of course, Vietnam. The draft loomed over every young man's plans for the future it seemed. Of course, in our rural community, none of the national angst and conflict actually occured, but it always felt like was close by and headed in our direction. We didn't have anything approaching a hippie in our school and the adults in our lives took a much more proactive approach to guiding us. Ironic that my form of "rebellion" would be to shun all of my "opportunities" and volunteer to be just like any other kid who didn't have my advantages. We Baby Boomers are a screwed up lot. Perhaps everything came too easily to us in those couple of decades. Patriotism, duty, social justice, nor any other lofty ideals factored into my decision making process at the time. I was simply tired of formal schooling, enjoyed football but hardly wanted to make a career of it, and resented so many people telling me what I was and would be.

I know that my Dad was proud as hell of me, especially my athletic achievement. I also recognized years later that he was terrified of losing me to Vietnam. He realized, I'm sure, that he had raised me on tales of becoming a fighter ace over Europe and felt that he had glamorized military service without imparting to me an equal appreciation for the sacrifices and dangers involved. Even had he done so, it would not have mattered at all. The only emotion I recall was a profound sense of guilt if I didn't do what others were forced to. I wasn't looking to "Defend Freedom From Communist Tyranny" or "Go Kill Me Some Gooks." There were only a handful of kids that I remember being drafted from our area, but many had enlisted. More than a few had come home in caskets over the previous few years and I had attended every one of the burial services. But can a 17 year old REALLY grasp the meaning of death, even at a funeral? All I saw was that there was a war and kids I knew were fighting it. Some had died in it. If I "hid" in college or even West Point, I was somehow not being a man. Such is the reasoning of a dumb kid.

You, my friend, got an education and several years of life under your belt and THEN gave your ass to Uncle Sam? I may be the dumb jock but you must be suffering from some form of mental retardation. And then to volunteer to be a big steel target packed with high explosives and diesel fuel? Surely, you must qualify for some form of disabilty payments for obvious mental incapacity given that string of boneheaded decisions. LOL

Back to you, my wayward friend.
Bob

Buenissimo! Or however your wife's relatives would spell it. Thought you told me you couldn't write.
As a prof, I have no choice but to give that one a 4.0. And I looked hard for anything I could find to downgrade it. Just wasn't there.
That is exactly how you should put things down in your journal efforts. You captured the frame of mind you were in at the time, and provided a background for why you were in that frame. Just the right amount of "big picture" to let today's or tomorrow's "yutes" get a glimpse of what is was back in the day.
Okay, if I make your head any bigger you won't get through the door to do those chores.
Responding to the question of whether I was aware of the national mood during Vietnam, a resounding yes. The fact that I was a young whelp didn't deter me from an acute interest. The one thing I think made a profound difference to me was that I wasn't here to live through it. From 1965-70 we lived in Japan, so I was well insulated from "hippie" influences. And my folks were the best. We got the Stars & Stripes newspaper, of course, but we also got two english language Japanese papers, and the Sunday editions of the New York Times and Chicago Tribune. So I got all the different points of view. Additionally, we lived on an Air Force base which was the primary medevac hospital for wounded. The C130s never stopped coming and going. Every Saturday the family would go to the hospital and visit with the troops, and then go to the movies. Nowadays the shrinks would probably condemn my parents for exposing preteens to such a "traumatizing experience" but it did us no harm, and did the troops a lot of good.
It was a major culture shock when I came back stateside and experienced firsthand the derision and actual hatred that some of this country had for the troops.
The entry into "manhood" has always been crazy, throughout history, in all cultures. What is it that requires us males to do wild, crazy, dangerous, and downright stupid things just to prove we are "man" enough to be admitted into that mysterious fraternity of "real men"? Who knows?
Boy, you nailed me with the last paragraph! The mental retardation was known as the Carter syndrome. There were no job prospects out there for a political science/history double major grad, and due to the family situation there was no way I was going to be able to go to grad school. My Grandfather had taken over covering the college expenses I couldn't after my Dad died, but because of my Aunt raising hell about him wasting her inheritance on me he couldn't help with grad school either. THAT'S another story.
Anyway after graduating I got a parttime job as a convenience store clerk, a parttime job as a janitor for Blue shield, and a parttime job as an inventory control clerk at a motorcycle shop where my best friend was sales and service manager. Between the 3 I worked 60 hours a week with no days off. You can imagine how a 22 year old enjoyed that scene.
Looking through the newspaper one day I saw this tiny ad that said "2500 dollar signing bonus. Call 1-800-...". Now 2500 dollars looked like a million to me right about then. So I dialed the number, and when a voice boomed out "United States Army Recruiting Office, how may I help you?" I nearly fainted. But greed is a powerful factor. I asked about the signing bonus; he said come on down, we'll talk about it. I did, and found out the bonus only applied to Infantry or Armor. Well, my Dad had been a TC during the Korean War, and the thought of walking around everywhere with a 70 pound pack on my back did not appeal to me at all. The rest, as they say, is history. I cursed myself through every minute of Basic and AIT!
So, as with you, a sense of duty and patriotism was not really a primary factor in my joining either.
Talking about diesel fuel, there's just something special about a motor pool where 44 sixty ton monsters are all roaring away. Yeah, right.
What's the next line of the song you referenced in your close? I need to stop getting old. I can here the tune running in my head, but the words won't come! Could have something to do with it once again being oh-dark-thirty in the morning, too. Once again, outstanding post, a true journal worthy and ready article.
Tankers Rule,
Bob

Sorry for the delay Robert. Time is just flying by this summer and it seems spare for moments are in short supply.

Returning to your comments, some questions have occurred to me that I had meant to ask earlier.

Without getting into great specifics, what was your father's profession? You obviously had a untypical childhood with a lot of world travel. Almost as bad as a military brat.

What were your impressions of the other cultures to which you were exposed? Have you made it back to any of those areas to note the changes?
Never did more than pass through Japan but was always fascinated by them as a people.

Despite my jibes, you actually did well to wait a few years before enlisting. You would not likely have been impressed by the Army of the early 70's. I have never comprehended how the Sov's never figured out what terrible shape we were in back then. Do you recall the racial and drug problems epidemic in the ranks or were you in "cleaned up" units by then?

You pointed out deficiencies in our educational system evident 30+ years ago. What did you think of the German or Japanese programs? The BRD seemed to have a much more practical approach geared to actual skill sets rather than just trying to pipeline the most amount of kids into higher education. Of course, we old timers have figured out that real education continues and becomes valuable only after we gain the experience to utilize and nuture it.

European women. What can I say? Heaven and Hell in the most delightful packaging ever devised. Just like the fairer sex everywhere, I suppose. I spent my share of time enjoying the local cultures as well, but never cared to form or had time for lasting relationships. That was until my own "colpo di fulmine." LOL I'll let you google that phrase. No French gals, however. I don't know if that is my loss or not. Dutch girls, however,.....

At any rate, I invite you to expand upon these interesting areas we've touched upon.

Regards,
Bob

P.S. Mel Gibson played Hal Moore in a movie called "We Were Soldiers.", which focused on the 1/7th in the first battle of the Ia Drang valley in '65. The book of course covered broader issues
of the war and our involvement.

Yeah, RL can be a pain when you want to kick back and enjoy your "old age".

Without going into unneccessary detail, Dad was an intel analyst. Not a field agent, thankfully.

Very unusual childhood, but I actually loved it. Lots of pros and cons both ways, but moving every couple years forced me into making friends quickly and coping when either they or we moved on. It also exposed me to a vast array of different cultures and socio-economic situations, which kept me from developing the insularity that people who spend their entire life in one location get. Downside is having no friend I grew up with from the cradle on, and a tendency to be unable to expose my "inner soul" to people. Also I am always psychologically thinking I'll be moving on soon, so committing is a problem. This despite the fact that I've been in the same locale for 25 years now!

Sidebar to that: I was highly ticked off at the USPS when I got a job there. On the app they ask whether you would be willing to transfer to other locations, including overseas. I checked all the boxes yes, with the thought that I would continue going from place to place every 3 years or so. It wasn't until I was signed on that I discovered that is a joke. Yes, you can transfer, but you have to receive permission from the PO you want to go to (no problem, that makes sense) AND your current installation must also approve your leaving! And unless you're an asshat worker, you don't get permission to leave. And if you are an asshat worker the place you want to go to won't accept you. Catch-22. In 16 years I was there my installation approved 3 transfers. One because the guy's father was the Postmaster of where he wanted to go, another because the girl's Mom was head of personnel, and one for family reasons. So much for my grand plan.

Impressions of other cultures? If you go somewhere new and expect them to conform to your ideas you'll be disappointed. "When in Rome..." is a cliche, but a valuable one. I liked the Japanese culture quite a bit, extremely polite, but rather too regimented for my taste. Never got used to their version of food either. Fish eyeball soup is a delicacy there, I kid you not. But they are on the whole an extremely intelligent people. Not inventive as such, but their ability to copy and improve is amazing.

Korean culture was not my cup of tea. They seemed friendly, but rather arrogant as a people, and I never adjusted to the fact that they are not believers in waiting in line. Every person for themselves.

Filipino culture was more along the Western thought pattern, but I never felt entirely comfortable amongst the folks there. Just got the impression that things were a facade.

German culture? I'm biased. That's my ancestry. And yes, they too can be arrogant, and also tend to be rather prejudiced towards folks with a REALLY good tan. On the plus side they make the best beer in the world (Guinness comes close)and if I could find a restaurant in my area that does jagerschnitzel I'd never eat at home!

Have I returned to see the changes? Except for the Phillippines, yes. Julie and I have been in Europe 5 times, and I always force her to spend at least a day in Germany. We also took a 3 week trip through Asia the year Hong Kong returned to the Chinese. That was a whirlwind trip. Hong Kong, Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Beijing, Shanghai, Korea, and Japan, 3 days in each.

As for cultures I have visited but not lived in, my favorites are the United Kingdom and Ireland. I spent a week in Ireland and gained 8 pounds! Probably 4 of that was Guinness. I do like my beer, but 3 a day is my limit. Of course, if the three are all 50 ounce Foster's ...

The drug problems in the barracks was still a major thing when I was in Germany, although it had shifted from heroin to hashish. The racial thing was also there in a big way, but it was more under the surface in an armor unit due to the dependence of the crew on everyone performing their duties.

Have to say that in my experience both the Japanese and German educational systems beat ours. The Japanese approach was to raise the bar for everyone, as opposed to the lowest common denominator "feel good" dumbing down here in the US. There was no such animal as "social promotion" in Japan either. If you couldn't catch on the first time you got a chance to try again. Your assessment of the BRD system seems on target.

I'll google that Italiano phrase after leaving the forum. Euro women do seem to have a much more open attitude than our American women. I made time for Yvette because it was that or stay in the barracks and deal with the "sit in the room, drink beer, smoke hash, play cards" barrack rat routine. Unless we were in the field I spent all my weekends from COB Friday until Sunday p.m. at her place. Your mentioning of Dutch girls brings back a memory too. Way back in the mid/late 80's Julie and I took a trip which included a stop in Amsterdam. It was in the beginning of our relationship, before we really became comfortable with each other. We had some trivial disagreement which I don't even remember what about, and the air was definitely chilly in our neighborhood.
Part of our experience was dinner at a restaurant which is in the Book of Records as having the smallest frontage in the world. English translation is The Green Door. Someone your size would probably have to turn sideways to walk in. It's 3 or 4 stories high with two tables per floor. Our floor was Jul and I, and a pair of young blonde Dutch girls at the other table. I flirted and conversed more with them than with Julie through the course of the meal, and ended up sleeping on the floor that night 'cuz the hotel we were staying in didn't have a couch!

I'm surprised I missed "We Were Soldiers", as I thought Moore's book was exceptional, and I'm a fan of Gibson.

There. I think I've covered all the points you made in your last. Don't worry about time lapses between posts. Being from farmer stock I understand that if do crops spring through harvest is pretty non-stop. And if you have livestock it's year round. Did my share of baling hay, detassling corn, etc.! Didn't like doing hay, too itchy after. Didn't mind the detassling because I had a lot of cute girl cousins and they helped with that.

Let me close by saying that travel is my cause celebre. I've been in all 50 states, and on every continent except Antarctica. And when I find a tour that actually lets you step on the ground I'm going there too. It doesn't count if you just look at it from a ship. Maybe I can convince one of my publishers to send me on assignment for a week. LOL. I've found in my experience that if you don't go in demanding that the country you're in conform to US ways you'll have a good time in most places. If you want to go to a foreign country, adjust to their way of doing things. I get embarrassed when I'm out of country and other visitors get hostile because "that's not the way we do it back home!" If you want things done the way they are back home go visit another state, there's plenty of things to see and do here in the US.

Excellent contribution to the other thread. A very nice summary of modern history. Your skills as a writer were most in evidence.
People do love their prejudices though, don't they?

Interesting field your father was in. I will assume that you probably were kept in the dark about much it. No suprise there. I worked in the field in a different capacity for much of the 80's. Keeping watch on the bear as it were, but that "desk tour" put me in place to meet my wife.
Therefore, it was the best post in which I could ever have served.

As to the Postal Service? Those people are nuts. 16 years? I doubt I could have lasted 16 minutes.

The Koreans are a fiercely proud and independent people who have had a hard time of it over the last 100 years or so. I understand your difficulty understanding them. Once you do get past the bravado, however, they are a wonderful people and outstanding soldiers.
Tra Binh Dong. Blue Dragons. My salutations.

When in Rome? Put your wallet in your sock and your jewelry in your FRONT pocket. LOL Americans have a reputation for being obnoxious but we can't hold a candle to continental Europeans for rudeness. They still haven't even heard of the concept of a line in Italy!

I wish I had had more free time to actually enjoy some of the places I've been, but that's Army life. We talk about travelling again, but it just seems to be a continuous string of "next years" with something always coming up. The mrs did spend 18 mos. back in the old country a few years back prior to her parents passing, but I couldn't get away to join her. Too many responsibilities here.

Incidently, farm chores are long gone hereabouts. I've just been running my ass off keeping the grandkids entertained. Got them all summer passes to a theme park and a water park in the area and we've been using the hell out of them. That and night shifts at the hospital have been keeping me pretty tied up. I haven't done much of anything around here this summer and there will be hell to pay this fall when I have to catch up all things I've been neglecting lately.

I will attempt to get the next installment of my little story on here soon.
"How Stupid Do You Have To Be To Volunteer For Vietnam.... Twice?"

LOL. Catch you soon.
Bob

Hey there. Jeez, there just isn't enough time in the day any more!

Am battling for a gc award this month over on GR, am getting WAY too involved with the decent discussions going on in the forum (but loving every minute!), and of course I need to pay the bills, so RL jumps in every so often.

Have been offered an interesting on site assignment which I am strongly tempted to take up. A magazine wants an article on some history of the Old West. They are willing to pay for one week lodging in Tucson, plus the stipend for the article. It is VERY rare that any publisher offers anything except the cash for the article. I have not worked for this particular magazine before,so am not certain if they are reliable. But boy, what an opportunity! Even if it IS the middle of the summer and will be 110 in the shade.

Don't think it would have an impact on SC, as most hotels nowadays offer some form of internet access.

Regarding my Dad, you're right. Until I was 12 or 13, I thought he was nothing more than a logistics clerk. Quite the surprise when I discovered the truth, and I will admit to a sense of pride.

I do agree with your assessment of the Korean people. I wasn't there long enough to gain any of the long term outlooks. That and the fact that I was a child. You're correct in their military ability. As I pointed out in the other thread and you referenced in yours, they were with us, along with the Aussies, up until nearly the end over in Nam. I will add that they were the most feared by the NVA and VC.

LOL on your assessment of Rome. Never been there, but Julie has and agrees with you 100%.

One of the downsides to being tied into a large property and community obligations is that your time doesn't really belong to you. Leaving for just a week causes all kinds of preplanning, rescheduling, etc. I sympathize with all that. It's too bad we can't have a clone of each of us, one to do the busy work and one to do the enjoyable stuff.

I occasionally wonder how things would have turned out if I had gotten married and raised a family. I'm very happy with what I do and when I do it, but the whole "grass is greener" syndrome sometimes sneaks in. For sure things would have been radically different!

Grandkids are great. The best part is you get to spoil the hell out of them and then ship them back to their folks to handle the fallout! Helps you get even with your kids for the stuff they put you through! This is from second hand, I'm not blessed with the tykes myself.

Hmmm... volunteered twice? You should get that checked into, it sounds serious. LOL. Dad spent 3 months there in 1970, and I overheard him tell my Mom afterwards "never again".

In breathless anticipation of the next installment of "The continuing Saagaa of FarmerBob"!

I do hate getting old. I remember very well that a narrator either in the movies or TV used to say "Stay tuned for the next episode in the continuing saga of..." and I also remember he dragged out the word saga, but for the life I me I can't put a name to it. Frustrating.

Until next time, Bob.

Robert, I will get back to our conversation shortly. Time continues to be a problem a for me and participating in the "other" discussion has been eating up my limited time.

However, i just wanted to let you know what I will be doing in few hours, Sunday morning, which may give you a chuckle.

Our annual barbeque extravaganza is approaching in a few weeks and one of my jobs in preparation for this is to slaughter and butcher a yearling cow a neighbor raises for me. We need to let the meat cure for a few weeks obviously. I was just considering how our many young associatates on SimCountry would react to the realities of this process.LOL

You mean hamburgers are dead cow, mommy?

That's right, Virginia, your Happy Meal is an accessory to murder.

Back to you soon.
Bob