Stop, you're killing me.

Meh. Couldn't care less Crafty. Until some big changes are made I'm sticking to the same frequency. That's, at least, until December, when the "other thing" launches and I move on from here.

---

A quote from Andy:

"This is part of each and every forum and because of this, it is very hard for us to learn anything from these discussions."

And I've never seen such a dissatisfied forum on any online gaming forum. Ever. What can you learn from that?

And Andy, remember that post I made a few months ago? It was highly constructive criticism. You could have easily learnt, or ignored. But then you swung the axe...

Andy...

You wrote: All corporations are profitable if managed well and there is no large oversupply. We know the numbers.

Well check on the Silver mining corporation on the country and tell me if you do know the NUMBERS?!

The Silver company is tested corporation to find out if you know the numbers or not. Now, that tells me we can't even put in the other corporations that are not making any profit, so i am forced to close this company sometime later on after yous looked at it and replace with another corporation that is profitable.

This Silver corporation is not making any income since it's been there and it's hurting the country's income.

Thanks, Anthony.

Whoa whoa wait....

Andy I've had a problem with this game for a little while now, and I was happy it got brought back up here but it seems like you saw a war comment and dodged the question.

It really isn't about what the thread is about but definately a more important issue. Some corps SHOULD fail, profitability CAN be lowered. All that is fine, what their needs to be is a distinction in playability. At the moment you can build any product in shortage let it upgrade it will sell for a static value, and that's the game. There is very little to no strategy at all. From your comment you feel we want to make a Trillion dollars a month, but I don't we care if everyone else also makes a Trillion a month.

There are good variables in this gamer to use, there is no reason the importance of supply and demand should be this unimportant. You say you know the numbers that you can make the numbers work with a stronger im

Please the GM dont know any numbers look at gasoline for example. If theres times when a ton of gasoline sold at a lower market then oil. And you used 1unit oil per 1 unit gas. And oil was 300 over in market cost. And to make gasoline you need more products i found almost no corps making money. Shows how much they look at the numbers. Base price should be what it is base price. When does a corp in real life ever sell goods for 20% of what it costs to make it.... Ya we made oil is costs us 100 per barrel, ok lets sell it for 20bucks that will make us a ton of money.. good job marketing and sales department raises for all of you

Well soldier, some corps real world do make loses. They have to sell low to keep in business, to keep people employed, pay the rent etc. Look at the banks ATM. eventually they (or the shareholders) hope to see profitable days again.

But yeah, the issue I have is like repeated by Drew, where's the playability, the skill, art, tactics of the game gone? Even the more complicated aspects of the game that take a while to master, like controlling IFs, the share market, ASQ, etc have changed beyond making any sense. I honestly would find playing slots on my cellie equally challenging.

I agree crafty

Sometimes corps do sell goods for less just to make some money but the point i was referencing was if you made a table and it costed $100 in just materials would you ever sell it for 20bucks?

The answer is NO.

then why can you do it in SC?

For example look @ gasoline and oil

You use 1unit of oil to make 1unit of gasoline.
If you look @ Oil's max price its $1000 per ton.
If you look @ Gasoline's Base price its under 1000.

Andy should be able to look @ the stats theres times when Oil was @ max and gasoline was below base price. Why would i sell gas for less then what the oil costs. Not to mention ALL the other products used to make it?

That's out of my hands SuperSoldier.

It's up to Andy to answer that one.

I don't know how the economy works and where people get the stuff from out of the ground and make'em. I can't do maths, im hopeless at it. Sorry.

Anthony.

SS, you dont HAVE to sell those products if you dont think the price is good enough.

Sometimes corps will have to sell below cost to maintain a turnover. Turnover, the recycling of cash, is very important in any industry or economy even.

Just try not selling anything in one of these corps and you'll soon see how quickly the corp dies.

Or use it to your advantage. Have your country buy all product, ok the corp is still selling low but your country is buying very cheap. Re sell at a later date or supply your own corps cheap when the price betters.

But yeah, I'm arguing against my original post here. The fact still remains that the market just doesn't make sense atm.

Any way. I would rather try and keep out of trouble as much as possible and keep to the code. I just hope i don't get banned from the game as i do enjoy playing it and watching the numbers grow up or down base on their market situation. I don't want to get paranoid and start causing trouble to any one. I'd rather keep it to my self and just accept whatever the game has to offer, just as long i keep the rules and not blaming others or the gamemaster since they have more power over others on the account holders.

Thank you all. Anthony.

The base price for Oil is 600
base price for Gasoline is 960.

Most times gasoline will cost more.

if there is a shortage of oil, it could go up to 900 or so.
If there is an oversupply of gasoline, it could go down to 500.

Yes.

It can happen that gasoline is cheaper than oil
only we don't do this.
You do.

Check the markets. the price always follows the surplus or shortage situation. Most times in the same game month, sometimes in the next.
It depends on the time the trading is executed in relation to the shortage or oversupply situation.

When prices reach the roof or the bottom, they bounce once and then follow the market situation again. If they hit the limit again, they bounce again.

This causes the zigzag pricing when top or bottom are reached. (the zigzag magnitude is about 3%)

we need a bottom to prevent prices from going too far down and bankrupt

But if an entire world has reached the top in 80% of the industries. Then it pretty much seems like nothing matters.

yah maybe extend your cieling atleast and wont the market balance.itself eventually?

I've deleted gold and silver company and trying beans now. See how that goes. We just gotta hope not all corporations are not performing well. That's two gone already and maybe third one later on for beans. I won't be getting them back again since they wern't doing well.

Anthony.

Andy, I don't really follow your reasoning in placing a bottom and top limit on pricing.

If corporations bankrupt, it's because the price has dropped too low. But those corps are ones which, historically, have never been profitable. Because of your limits, they may not go bankrupt, but they will be a steady drain on income. So it's just a long, slow death, rather than a quick one.

Anthony epitomised it above - he is no longer going to build silver or gold and there will be plenty of other types of corp which he adds to his list in the long-term. This is part of the learning process for any SimCountry player.

But all this actually does is to remove an element of skill and player-control from the game and negate the aspect of supply and demand and market forces. It's the lack of parity between corps that is the real problem.

Would it not make the game much better for the players if, instead of set

From a9fc8yt3kd1:

#1: I agree with Crafty completely. The game shouldn't even set a base price for any commodity. All prices of all commodities should be set solely by the market forces of supply and demand. No more socialism!

#2: I understand the logic of a national debt limit for each country in Simcountry, beyond which you shouldn't be allowed to purchase anything. It certainly forces a certain amount of responsibility upon players in Simcountry.
However, it makes no sense to prohibit purchasing of offensive weapons when a country's net cash is only below 3T, when that same country is allowed to continue purchasing other commodities until its net cash is below 14T. Offensive weapons are even more important for defense than defensive weapons are! The debt limit is a good idea, but the limit should be the same for purchasing everything.

#3: Automatic selling of resources from a country's stockpile when that

The business model of this game is to encourage players to buy gold coins.

GC are the real currency. When players earn lots of game cash, the suits restrict and reduce the source of that game cash.

Yes, they give away some GC. But those freebies aim to get players addicted to GC.

If products have no price controls, then players would find ways to earn lots of game cash. The suits don't want that. They don't want game cash to become the principal currency.

They don't want players to compete to see who earns the most game cash. They want players to compete for ranks fueled by GC.

That's why the game has rigid price controls on anything related to game cash.

Unacceptable, you can't make any money without clients. Can't it be tweaked so that it takes skill to make money with lax price controls? So no one can truly replace gold coins because profitibility could be tweaked and limited.

Here's the problem I see, not sure if it's true for other worlds, but of GR: Surplus doesn't exist, nope every industry is in shortage. There is 0 flucuation in price outside of quality difference. So... this has happened now SC has to fix it. I gave a solution that would bring variance and solvency to the market and Andy told me other solutions were going to be done, or something like that. (Increase output or reduce inputs, to force shortages and bring market volitility to the game) <-My solution not the only solution
Anywho...

The question has been asked and answered with profits, (wrong question answered) the topic moved to viper bringing up the war game, (

You know what would be an AWESOME UPDATE!!!

THE GM STOP PLAYING THE SUPPLY FAIRY!!!
https://sim05.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwCountry&SN_METHOD=w3graph&miTable=tldhist&miKey=21&miColumn=vTradeSupplyVolume
Theres only 7 corps on LU making forts with that kind of jumping. If the GM LEFT THEM ALONE!!!!! They would max in price making them an item players would consider creating

In the real world, if a corporations has difficulties finding the raw materials it needs, or the workers it needs, it will manage anyway.
there are always alternative ways to find raw materials and you can always get workers through temporary hiring etc.
Large corporations never drop production because of such difficulties.

In Simcountry, this is much harder.

Shortages without a price limit will not only make one type of corporations very profitable, it will bankrupt many other corporations overspending on raw materials and can quite quickly, destroy the entire market. we have run many experiments in the past on test worlds and saw it taking place.

We have plans to soften this problem by the introduction of "temporary work" service corporations and the introduction of multiple product qualities and types per corporation, along with super corporations that can grow 2 fold or 4 fold and in the process, get a priori

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Large corporations never drop production because of such difficulties.<!-/Quote-!>

I don't suppose you where around when the Tsunami hit Japan and American auto manufacturers had to stop production on certain colors or certain models due to no pigment or parts?

You are right Yankee.
we all know this and it is very exceptional.

not so exceptional in the game.
It would be much worse if corporations did not have a large stock of raw materials helping to bridge over periods when the materials are on order and not being delivered.

Andy

I can understand the intervention on materials like selenium, construction, or services. I can understand that with no services it would kill everyone.

But some products i think the GM needs to back off entirely from and see no prob. In my post above why is it unnecessary for you to be adding 400 even 500forts. If you let it go 500 in the red players would be forced to make there own or wait for them to show up on the market. This applys for all weapons. If anything the Defensive, Offensive markets should be entirely player based and should see 0 GM interference