What are we doing!? (Little Upsilon)

I heard yesterday that the USA will impose a tariff on all tyres coming from China (45% I think it was). What free market?
It's all Bananas.

Go look up the term "Free Market Economy" nix. That'll put it into context for you.

I have always thought that NAFTA was the perfect example of what is wrong with Free Trade/Market. Why would it take over 20k pages to say - you don't monkey with prices of goods and services over and above how we already stick our own citizens, and we won't either?

LOL Nanna! That's a compliment

Oh, and by the way, that's Jesse 'THE BODY' to you!

I thought about it a little and I can't come up with a single style of government that is in itself bad, or evil.

Even despotism, if run by beings that don't have greed and corruption, would work beautifully. Communism, the same thing, fascism is only bad because of what it was used for. I don't think fascism teaches racial hatred but rather strict control I may be wrong, I don't study it. Fascism can be used to advance racial hate, so can a republic as we have witnessed in recent history.

It's the men who are evil, not the systems they use to enslave their people with. Just some systems are easier to do it with. We would like to keep the one that makes it more difficult and that's not socialism. Socialism seems to l

interesting comments from you all
wake up zombies

Tyr, why do you say that US healthcare seems very unchristian? Everyone seems to agree that it's the best in the world if you can afford it. No one seems to disagree that the great majority of Americans can afford it, one way or another. Poor people and the elderly have basic care paid for them by the rest of the citizens. The basic research that is done here benefits people around the world. Sure it costs more...but then again, compared to other nations we are relatively well off.

What do you find unchristian about it? Are you accusing the politicians and insurance companies that shield insurance companies from competition? Are you referring to the politicians and their constituents who demand that a basic insurance policy cover extravagant and unneeded services, making it impossible in many states to buy a cheap catastrophic health insurance policy? Are you talking about the fact that American consumers subsidize the cost of prescr

I'm not judging anyone!
Simple observation that there is much money in the health business and many people without care. Basic care is not enough. America can afford to provide better than basic care to all its people.
The use of money around the world, not just in America is very wasteful. People are basically selfish to varing degrees.
People will buy a $1000 bottle of wine and walk past a homeless person in the street without taking any notice.
An extreme example maybe but it illustrates the wasteful use of money.

And how exactly does one define Christianness?

Love your neighbor?

Who's health is failing.

SiI agree with Tyr, his observation is completely accurate.

"People are basically selfish to varing degrees.
People will buy a $1000 bottle of wine and walk past a homeless person in the street without taking any notice.
An extreme example maybe but it illustrates the wasteful use of money."

So what if they are? It might not be "right" but it's their choice. And what does America policy and legislation have to do with Christianity?

You know, there a many many many rich people saying we ought to do this or ought to do that. Why the hell don't they do it? Why can't they set up a non-profit type of insurance as an insurer of last resort and use minimal premiums and charitable donations to keep it running? Hell, I wouldn't mind donating. What I don't like is the government getting larger and more intrusive. We're becoming a nation that's reliant on the government. American pride has always before been our independence and liberty. Every year we lo

"So what if they are? It might not be "right" but it's their choice."

This is a fascinating observation by you BC. I personally find it disturbing that it is way to easy to point that out, with stunning accuracy I might add.

Let's not forget that Liberty was a gift to man from the Devil himself. Did we learn anything of the examples in the garden of eden? Poor Eve had a choice, too bad it supposedly cost us all our immortality. Sad to see if she hadn't made those choices, we wouldn't need healthcare, nor this conversation.


"And what does America policy and legislation have to do with Christianity?"

That is easy. Easy enuff to proly not have even asked. Lets see. . .

Does any of this ring bells?

"In God We Trust"
"One Nation, under God, Indivisable"

Clearly, these are core statements from which our Nation has been founded. Ye

Also, there are many charites available.

For example. On a National Level, "Catholic Charites" does more than just healthcare. They extend into housing assistance, rental assistance, food banks, and more. In Florida, there is "Charity Care". Our Private sector for charitable organizations remains the largest on a global scale. This is a fact.

The Govt has been large, there isn't anything new. They have also been intrusive. Do you recall the "Patriot Act"? The Bill that has the US spying on all its citizens in the name of terrorism. The same bill that has hundreds of Americans getting rectal searches for being on terror watchlists hap hazardly at our nations airports. Is that not intrusive? How aboiut yes, in the worse way.

Gimme a break. Those points are rediculous excuses to mask retarded opposition to clearly needed change on so many levels that have been neglected by past elected officials. What

And since we are on foolish talking point about opposition to HealthCare Reform along lines of cost, Lets take a quick looksee at this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax


A great alternative to our current system of taxation with more potential for economic growth and personal advancement for the citizen. Along with a projected multi triilion dollar budget surplus if implemented. Why isn't anyone emailing their congressman about this?

"Why isn't anyone emailing their congressman about this?"

Ohhhh I got it!! We wouldn't want everyone getting by in America. We wouldn't want you to retain 30+/- % of your income. Think of what you would do with all that. Maybe quit living paycheck to paycheck. Or maybe start a business. Or get out of debt. Maybe quit owing the govt. at the end of the year. (Lord Forbid that!!)

Ohh I got another One!!!! We wouldn't want consumer prices to fall. Well that would unravel everything. We wouldn't Americans trying to live the "Dream thingy" competing with big business. No way. That would just be stinky.

What is going on here?

I'm not against a Fair Tax, per se, but it could be argues that the people hit hardest will be the poor, who, at the moment, pay nothing in taxes.

Further, there are sufficient grounds to point out that an Income Tax is unconstitutional.

I definitely believe there should be a change in our tax codes.

Not entirely true BC.

What is uncommon in fair tax discussions or debates is that the current corp tax is priced into goods as they cost today. If corp tax is 30% or so. US being the highest tax for corps in the world. They price goods accordingly to offset tax expenditures. Moving to a fair tax system will obviously lower the overall price of goods, And I would even go as far as to say that new competition in a pro growth environment would allow goods to drop below prices that we already pay today. The trick here being that the money spent is being taxed, not the income anyone earns. So when subsidy comes in the form of welfare for example, even it is taxed and a protion will be recouped by the govt that issues it. At present, I believe unemployment and welfare payments are non taxable. Thats lost revenue and a downward investment on the govt's part. It is likely that the poor individuals buying power will be the same if not expanded as fair

We are in a recession, correct? We "DO" want to come out of it, correct? We "ARE" trying to reduce the Deficit, Encourage economic growth, get consumer spending and retail sales up again, correct?

Why isn't this being voted on right now? Anyone?

It wold be nice if we could try it out on some state that doesn't matter..... like Montana or something ( ) to see if it ACTUALLY works out the way we speculate.

One thing is for sure, Economics is a bitch.

People are resistent to the kind of change we REALLY need.

For instance, I've mentioned a while ago that consolidating states would save a boatload of money. Why do we need so many small states with their invidual governments, programs, costs, etc?

That's probably an "unpatriotic" thing to say. I'm definitely for a more centralized government.

Just read your response abuot healthcare. Overlooked it earlier.

So,

This discussion is about legislation, so it seems to me that you would argue that you would have your own "wrongs" and "rights" pushed onto others through this legislation. If that's the case, there are a lot of Christians who would also like to ban abortions, same sex marriages, drinking, smoking, etc. You for all of that too? Those would be based on Christian principles, or at least the way the advocates define them.
I wonder how many of you "ought tos" out there give to every bum you see, mow old ladies lawns, consistently give to charities, or would be willing to pay (or contribute) to your unemployed neighbors healthcare costs? Don't answer. The simple truth is that very few of the proponents of this particular healthcare people want to be responsible for it themselves. We all know how much the government wastes. Why do peo

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I don't know that one nation's healthcare is better than anothers, but I agree with JoJo that most people DO get the healthcare they need. We only hear the stories about the ones that don't, because, as Klarina will recognize, it is a rhetorical tool used as an appeal to emotion. We get the same horror stories in the US about Britain's and Canada's systems. Which is why we have American's saying British system SUXORZZ and Brits saying that American's PHAILZ, when it's likely that neither are the case.<!-/Quote-!>

Somebody gets it at least.

When we come right down to the base of this whole issue you will find that it isn't actually healthcare that is the problem here. Its percieved government intervention in the day to day lives of the citizen.

In order to understand the reason for the American distaste for socialised hea

BC LoL, why would I act when I am clearly, openly, and admittedly partisan.

I've said it b4 and i'll say it again. If i have to choose between bad and evil, I'll choose bad.

I am so against republicans, what they represent and stand for, publicly and privately; that I wonder why you made such a comment.

No secret here, Publicans Blo chunks.

Because I thought we were going for "Intellectual Discussion", not meaningless propaganda and slurs.

My mistake.

We are going for that kind of discussion, but by no means would that imply that I am claiming bi-partisan opinion in the process.

It is unfortunate that at the heart of this issue is the clear party line vote that threatens to derail the entire healthcare bill. It is undeniable that every comment you or I make can be viewed as partisan. But your comments seem to be sound bites replayed by "Fox Noise" compared to my heartfelt opinion.

Wouldn't you agree?

Where in the discussion should "Big Government" dominate objections to insuring otherwise uninsured citizens of America? It shouldn't even be viewed as a valid point honestly. No one is going to do it privately, govt. regulates everything, so it is obvious who has to undertake this task.

Fox News? It's American History, dear. This debate (big government, etc.) goes back to Hamilton vs. Jefferson and even beyond. A little before Fox News' time.

And didn't you just unabashedly claim your own partisan behavior? Wouldn't that mean your own points are worthless?