STOP KILLING THE CHILDREN (Kebir Blue)

Archangel: "I have a perspective, you have an opinion, he has a political agenda."

You have as much of an agenda as anyone my friend.

(Your name isn't really FarmerBob, is it???)

Hector. Name one other place in the world where women and children can't leave the conflict zone.

France 1914, France 1941, France 1945

Vicksburg 1862-1864, Gettysburg 1863, Stalingrad 1943, Berlin 1945, China 139-1945, Korea 1951-1953.....

The list is long Nix and you are wrong.

Hello SC, I'm back with a new back!...

Just for short spats tho, tired-too many drugs.


"Name one other place in the world where women and children can't leave the conflict zone."

Only 1 Nix?

Poland, Germany, Bosnia, China, Darfur...shall I continue? Yes I will!

EVERY American Native who walked North America was subject to this type of treatment. Native women gave birth to new savages after all... and for that they died. If the natives had more than stone-age technology the wars with the settlers would STILL be being fought, and not unlike the tactics used by Palistinians. But since they didn't they experianced the worst genocide known in human history.

Not too long ago American spaghetti westerns often quoted "the only good injun is a dead injun" and it offended very few.

I guess all I can say is for folks to study the history of human behavior before trying to access the present.


Goodnight,
Dirt

I wonder if a 15 year old combatant is considered a child? Likely...should he/she be treated differently?

Barney,

If you see a primate with an assault rifle shooting at you would you duck and get out of direct line of sight or would you stand up and check the species, gender, and age? Did you mean 15 year old POWs?

It's actually sad that a 15yr old is lead into being a combatant. Child soldiers and such. Entire generations are born into violence and suffering.
Also note, everyone should read everyones posts. This conversation is starting to suck. I will now set a timeline of truths.

1. Israel V Hamas/ Jews v Islam- Myth
It's people killing people over imaginary friends.
the rage is sturred up to the point of killing each other.

2. Children getting harmed- inexcusable.
should NEVER happen.

3. Children combatants- The BIGGEST AUTRACATY OF OUR GENERATION.

4. Reasons for this war- Greed on both sides.
It's true, someone has a financial interest involved.

5. Us argueing trivial facts- Dumb.
Talk is cheap. Time to start walking.

6. the fact that people can sit by while innocents die- sickening. A lot of people should be ashamed of themselves.

7. Solution- education. Learn what is really going on. dig down about. Then it should be clear.

THAT IS NOT RIGHT THAT MY POSTS GET DELETED. I WILL EMAIL THE GAME MASTERS UNTIL THIS IS STOPPED!!!!

Poobah, again, did you forget the fact that Gaza is not surrounded by Israeli territory? Did you forget that the entire southwestern border of Gaza is closed by Egypt. Israel certainly has a blockade on Gaza NOW. Until this started, they did not so stop trying to shout your lies and actually try to learn.

If you define greed as not wanting fellow citizens in your country to get killed, then I would direct you to websters.com.

If anything, greed could be the biggest motivator in STOPPING what is going on. In its attempt to have peace, Israel withdrew from Gaza. Completely. Even forcibly removing Jewish settlers because THATS WHAT THE PALESTINIANS WANTED. You claim Israel then blockaded Gaza. Well, that is NOT TRUE and simply not possible as Gaza is not surrounded by Israeli territory. Israel did indeed control its borders with Gaza, typically not allowing anyone or anything through. Please tell me why this is so bad or even unexpected. Have you forgotten the Iron Curtain and Berlin Wall? Is it ok for other countries to close their borders to intruders simply because they are bigger or simply because they are not Jewish? In fact, Israel was probably hurting itself monetarily by closing the borders. Care to revise your little greed theory that is so wrong? I guess Israel values lives more than money. Isn't that exactly what you are supposedly promoting?

You act like there is a choice in this matter. Innocents died in World War II, one of the most justifiable wars on the part of the US ever. Would it have been better if we had never fought it? It would certainly be better if we never HAD to, but we did. How is this any different? Or is it wrong simply because Israel is so much bigger than Gaza? Should I stand there allowing you to punch me simply because I am bigger and can take the punches longer?

Yes, it really really sucks that people are dying, but what should Israel do. Just sit there forever while rockets rain down upon them? At what point have they done enough trying to get the rest of the world to stop Hamas? At what point are the losses they were taking big enough for them to do exactly what they have done? Do you or I or anyone really have the right to tell them what that point may be? No, we do not.

You sit there crying about what is going on now but YOU, just like the Palestinians who allowed Hamas to come to power, did NOTHING while Hamas attacked Israel over and over and over again FOR NO REASON. Therefor, I say YOU are as responsible for this situation as anyone. Do not delude yourself into thinking you are not.

You see, I am educated on the situation. I do know what has happened. I have dug deeper. I have experienced it and studied it and learned about it for the last 25 years. You sit there and spout off with your little 'truisms'. At least you use the word 'should' when you say children should never get harmed, but that is irrelevant. They do get harmed, they will get harmed, and, in the situation we are discussing, the ISRAELIS are doing their best to minimize that harm while Hamas has constantly and continually done their very best to DO harm or CAUSE IT HAPPEN to children, both their own and Israeli children. Be sad that Israel was FORCED into their actions. Be sad that Palestinians are suffering. DO NOT be misled into thinking the Palestinians are innocent.

Helloa General Dirt Good to see you about and I agree with your last bit. But, and this goes to you aswell Sam AKA JB.
Quote from typing into Google Israeli wall around Gaza.

'The Israeli Gaza Strip barrier is a separation barrier first constructed under the leadership of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin.

Completely encircling the Gaza Strip, the barrier is made up of wire fencing with posts, sensors and buffer zones on lands bordering Israel, and concrete and steel walls on lands bordering Egypt.'

So your telling me all these countries or cities on your lists had one of those around it?

Do you lot know how big the Gaza strip is?
It's like fencing of NY city so no one can get out, then targeting it like Berlin in 1945. At least any children from Berlin would have been able to have been evacuated, like London when the war began. Dam, most hav'nt even got bomb shelters in Gaza. They just sit in their rooms waiting to die.

I just don't understand why they did'nt let the children out first.
I also don't understand why alot of you just don't seem to get whats going on.

But then if they had got the children out, there would have been no excuse not to mini nuke Gaza

Can you imagine that. All the children/women/elderly are given 1 week to leave Gaza(which they would have done so if they wer'nt caged in and the crossings were open).
Then it would be Fighter V's Fighter(with a bigger gun)

Gaza would be flattened, job done. That would then just leave the West Bank. But by that time, most of the West Bank Palestinians would have gone to Joran due to the over crowding caused by the Gazan's and from also seeing what they have just witnessed in Gaza(would you want to hang around?) Forget the fence around Gaza, you wanna check out the Wall around the West Bank.
Anyway, that would have, over time and with a bit of persuasion, left the West bank for the Zionists. Sorted. But no, because they were running out of time to get the worst of it out of they way while Bush was still in office. You got to give it to the palestinians, they held on as long as they could. Through starvation, humiliation, family seperation. Everything Israel could do to them to get the party started and they nearly held on for the New Kid on the block to get to the party. But now it looks like the Zionists might have missed their chance?

They did'nt get the children out because time was on top of them.

"Care to revise your little greed theory that is so wrong? I guess Israel values lives more than money. Isn't that exactly what you are supposedly promoting? "

So that's why they drop bombs on them? That's why they use White Phosphorous? a Weapon BANNED by the Geneva convention. Peace is often never found through war. You claim your education on the subject gives you insight. True to a point. I am self educated, I call it how I see it without the biase of education institutions.

"Yes, it really really sucks that people are dying, but what should Israel do. Just sit there forever while rockets rain down upon them?"

Yes. Even the Muslim world would turn agains Gaza if Israel took it like a champ. Those rockets kill like 1 person for every 10 they launch. It's not like it's That big of a threat. More people die of Heart disease each year. Peaceful resistance always works better. Get public opinion against Hamas through peaceful protest. Then devote the funds to rebuild Gaza with Schools, hospitals Etc. Then the problem is solved.

"did you forget the fact that Gaza is not surrounded by Israeli territory?"

Gaza also boarders Egypt and the ocean. An ISRAELY MILITARY BLOCKADE HAS BEEN INPLACE ALONG THE GAZAN BOADER SINCE BEFORE THE CEASEFIRE WAS SIGNED. International pressures forced Egypt to block of the southern boader.
When a hole was punched, Egypt dragged it's feet on fixing it. This allowed Food and medical supplies to flow in.
The economic instability, which was partially created by israel, has allowed violent gangs (hamas and others) to take control of an impoverished and scared Gazan community.
Fear controlls. Just like we were lead to believe that Al Qeida is a threat.

War is not how you end this. Israel should have helped rebuild Gaza. The people need Educated. The children need to grow up in a violence free world
The truth is- Violence in not in our nature. It is a learned trait and the last generation continues to ruin the newest generation.
But, it is planned.
Why educate and attempt to control, when you can dumb them down and then kill any consenters.
Besides, educated people sit on your front porch singing songs about YOUR human rights violation. You can't very well label them as terrorists(a myth by the way).

Lets compare this war to- I shoot you with a spit wad, so you beat me to death with a hammer.


I am not supporting Hamas or Israel.
I am saying- Unless the conditions in Gaza improve (which the people would love to happen) this will never end. However, Israel has proven repeatedly that it does not want Gaza to become stable and productive.
They would no longer have an enemy to distract their people with while they take away their rights.
Just like the U.S. does.
Just like the U.K. Does.
theirs a much bigger picture at play.

Kill for gain or shoot to maim
But we don't need a reason
The Golden Goose is on the loose
And never out of season
Blackened pride still burns inside
This shell of bloody treason
Here's my gun for a barrel of fun
For the love of living death.


The killer's breed or the demon's seed,
The glamour, the fortune, the pain,
Go to war again, blood is freedom's stain,
Don't you pray for my soul anymore.
2 minutes to midnight
The hands that threaten doom.
2 minutes to midnight
To kill the unborn in the womb.

The blind men shout let the creatures out
We'll show the unbelievers
The napalm screams of human flames
Of a prime time Belsen feast...YEAH!
As the reasons for the carnage cut their meat and lick the gravy,
We oil the jaws of the war machine and feed it with our babies.


The body bags and little rags of children torn in two
And the jellied brains of those who remain to put the finger right on you.
As the madmen play on words and make us all dance to their song,
To the tune of starving millions to make a better kind of gun.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

How many? During the 1980s and 1990s total abortions stayed about 1,550,000 annually, slowly decreasing in the 1990s. Note that the Guttmacher Institute reported that 10% of known abortion providers did not report. Adding 10% to its 1,550,000 equals 1,700,000. The total reported slowly decreased in the 1990s. When the unreported abortions are added (income tax evasion, cover-up for privacy, etc.), a figure of 1,800,000 may be more realistic. Live births have hovered just under 4,000,000. Therefore: Almost every third baby conceived in America is killed by abortion. 112 Abortion Surveillance U.S. 1988 Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report Centers for Disease Control, Atlanta, July 1991. S.K. Henshaw et al., "Abortion Services in the U.S., 1987-1988," Family Planning Perspectives, Vol. 22, No. 3 (May-June 1990), p. 103.<!-/Quote-!>

WOW
1,800,000 people killed before they even get born.
Yes let the children out one third of the babies get knifed.
So let me sse 1,800,000 sim people are worth about 16 gold coins.

What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

MOAR WAR MOAR WAR

Nute Gunray

Nute. What go on man?
'Yes let the children out one third of the babies get knifed.'

I don't know what you mean by that.
It would work just as well with out it.

No Neeeeeeed

What I meant is there are so many self-centered people. They do not care about the children of others, and sometimes they do not even care about their own children. The signs are here. I meant by "one third of the babies get knifed" is that in the United States about 1 out of 3 babies are aborted each year. So much death and so few who really care about the children.
We should do something about all of this. We should protect the children somehow.
But it is now to the point where the moms and dads are forsaking their own children to go on drinking binges and to find a fix for their crack addiction.

Let the children live.

Now I have said too much soon they will say SPAM

Nute Gunray the Viceroy

Well said.
So I suppose if they are willing to forsake their own, why would they give a hoot about anyone elses? Especialy the children of Gaza.

No sheep, I would put the cross hairs on that childs head and paint the wall red behind him. My point is "child" can be a rather subjective term in war torn areas.

"forsaking their own children to go on drinking binges and to find a fix for their crack addiction."

Like many of our problems, we tend to try and put a bandage over the social wound. When instead we should be treating what caused the cut. We need to teach kids proper sex education, improve the home and familly structures and then stop lieing to the kids. Trust me, they/I could tell when someone was feeding me a line of BS.


Which also brings me to the same point on the mideast crisis- Rebuild their infrustructure and educational system and solve the problem.

As taken from news article-

The U.N. Children's Fund says 840,000 children in Gaza are under extreme stress and are traumatized by the violent events of the past few weeks. UNICEF warns of long-lasting psychological consequences for thousands of children caught up in the Israeli- Hamas conflict in Gaza.

The United Nations reports more than one thousand Palestinians have been killed and more than 5,000 wounded since the conflict in Gaza began nearly three weeks ago.

The U.N. Children's Fund says about one third of those killed and wounded are children. UNICEF Regional Director for the Middle East and North Africa, Sigrid Kaag, says as usual children bear the brunt of the hostilities.

"It will be a long haul in our estimation to really assist children and their families to rebuild what is left of a normal life under already very challenging circumstances," she said.

Speaking from Amman, Jordan, Kaag tells journalists in Geneva the conflict is a disaster for children on all levels. She says prior to the Israeli military incursion, the stress level of children was already high. She says this has only worsened.

She says children daily are exposed to killings, home demolitions, displacements and house searches. At the same time, she says, they no longer have access to normal routines such as schooling and play.

For full article-

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-01-16-voa63.cfm

Gazan Doctor and Peace Advocate Loses 3 Daughters to Israeli Fire and Asks Why
By DINA KRAFT
Published: January 17, 2009
TEL HASHOMER, Israel - Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish is a Gazan and a doctor who has devoted his life to medicine and reconciliation between Israelis and Palestinians.

Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, right, in the hospital where he works in Israel. He lost three daughters, and a fourth was being treated.

Related
Israel Declares Cease-Fire; Hamas Says It Will Fight On (January 18, 2009) But on Saturday, the day after three of his daughters and a niece were killed by Israeli fire in Gaza, Dr. Abuelaish, 53, struggled to hold on to the humane philosophy that has guided his life and work.

As he sat in a waiting room of the Israeli hospital where he works part time, he asked over and over, "Why did they do this?"


For full article


Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago,
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley-folk below.

On the mountain was a treasure
Buried deep beneath the stone,
And the valley-people swore
They'd have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill,
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.

Came an answer from the kingdom,
"With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses! Draw your sword!"
And they killed the mountain-people,
So they won their just reward.

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

One Tin Soldier
(The Legend of Billy Jack)

Please ask yourself, "What can I do in my part of the world? How can I effect change for the better? How can I invest into a child's life"
Nute Gunray the Viceroy

Nicely said Nute.


Copied from Nutes link:
'Israel declared late Saturday that a unilateral cease-fire would begin in Gaza within hours, but said its troops would remain in place for now.'

Unilateral Contract: A contract in which only one party makes an express promise, or undertakes a performance without first securing a reciprocal agreement from the other party.

Hamas has made many of them already. Israel has never taken any notice of them.


'In Gaza City, a Hamas spokesman in hiding, Fawzi Barhoum, said in a statement that "we will not accept the presence of a single soldier in Gaza," according to Agence-France Presse. "The Zionist enemy must stop all its aggression, completely withdraw from the Gaza Strip, lift the blockade and open the crossings."'

Which all these conditions, in my opinion, are why Hamas started firing rockets again.
How are Hamas going to get the blockaides stopped, get the crossings re-opened, stop the assasinations and eventualy stop the occupation with just rolling over?
Why should Hamas agree to a cease fire which gives the Gazan Palestinians nothing and Israel Zinoists everything?
(I say Zionist because a Jew would'nt be doing these things in the first place.)

And if you hav'nt already, have a look at Nutes Link : Full Article

Hamas started firing rockets again because Israel broke the truce. In fact, Israel never even abided by the truce in the first place: the truce called for the lifting of the Israeli blockade of Gaza (which incidentally was imposed before Hamas took over in Gaza - Gaza was still under Fatah control when the blockade was imposed) and Israel simply didn't lift the blockade. Since the blockade is defined as an act of war, in effect Israel got away with maintaining attacks on the population of Gaza while Hamas kept its part of the bargain.

Hamas held back the rockets until Israel launched two raids allegedly to destroy tunnels in Gaza, killing Palestinians in the process. As far as I'm concerned, the raids were intended to provoke Hamas retaliation and give Israel a pretext to launch its long-planned attack on Gaza.

A female CNN journalist heard about a very old Jewish man who had been going to the Western Wall to pray, twice a day, every day, for a long, long time.

So she went to check it out. She went to the Western Wall and there he was walking slowly up to the holy site. She watched him pray and after about 45 minutes, when he turned to leave, using a cane in a very slow fashion, she approached him for an interview.

"I'm Rebecca Smith from CNN. Sir, how long have you been coming to the Western Wall and praying?"

"For about 60 years."

"60 years! That's amazing! What do you pray for?"

"I pray for peace between the Christians, Jews and the Muslims. I pray for all the hatred to stop and I pray for all our children to grow up in safety and friendship."

"How do you feel after doing this for 60 years?"

"Like I've been talking to a fuckin' wall!

I will point out, again, that Israel cannot blockade Gaza when 8 miles of southwestern Gaza borders Egypt. Again, why should there be any expectation whatsoever that Israel allow anything at all to cross its borders. Why do you think it fair or just or even right that every other country in the world can decide when, what, and who crosses, or does not cross, its borders, Israel should not have that choice?

Are you stupid? Did you get dropped on your head as a child? It is literally impossible for Israel to blockade Gaza without invading Egypt. Last I heard that hasn't happened in 40 years. There is a HUGE difference between blockading and closing your borders. Again, is there something special about Israel that means the rest of the world can tell it, unlike any other country in the world, it cannot control its own borders?

It is only my opinion, but the reason people like Almohad use the term 'blockade' despite it being incorrect do so because of it pejorative value. It simply sounds bad. You go with that propaganda there Almohad. I will continue to point out your deceit.