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Billy_Bob_Joe_Bob_Steve (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
22 May 2011 05:16Link
Those do seem like good ideas. Lack of government involvement is a good idea, but it's practically impossible. The government runs the Treasury, so not only control how much money is printed, but the inflation. And if a few bundles of hundreds just "happen" to fall off the back off a truck somewhere, well, the government wouldn't have to tell anyoine about it. I think that the fixed taxes for everyone are a decent idea, but what about low class families that only make, say, $20,000 a year? Take off ten cents per dollar, thats about $2,000 in tax. Thats $18,000 in money they actually make. My parents each have a job, and bring in about $50,000 a year, and that's just enough to support our family (I have one brother). Take ten cents per dollar, that's $45,000. If $50,000 is just enough to keep a roof over my families head and food on our table, then imagine what taking $5,000 off could do. And then you have the CEOs making, le
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Skandar (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
22 May 2011 11:05Link
@Double Bob, yes I live in England (hence my proper spelling for everything and use of petrol rather than gas - I use gas to cook, not fuel my car) ;-P
@Scarlet Transportation: "The solution to the problem of subsidies and such is to eliminate government involvement in the economy entirely."
Very bad example. A lot of infrastructural investments have what is known as a natural monopoly. Taking the British water industry as an example, most companies competed bitterly over the valuable urban business to the point where prices were so low that none of the companies could turn a significant profit, and rural communities were left with no competition & high prices due to the slim profit margins of sparsely populated regions. These multiple systems were not used to capacity (failing the prime test of capitalism - e
@Scarlet Transportation: "The solution to the problem of subsidies and such is to eliminate government involvement in the economy entirely."
Very bad example. A lot of infrastructural investments have what is known as a natural monopoly. Taking the British water industry as an example, most companies competed bitterly over the valuable urban business to the point where prices were so low that none of the companies could turn a significant profit, and rural communities were left with no competition & high prices due to the slim profit margins of sparsely populated regions. These multiple systems were not used to capacity (failing the prime test of capitalism - e
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Jojo T. Hun (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
22 May 2011 18:20Link
Amtrack
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Billy_Bob_Joe_Bob_Steve (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
22 May 2011 18:44Link
I hope you aren't really a fan of BP, because I fully blame them for the Deepwater Horizon disaster. Personal hatred of a select few British executives aside, I think that republicans are even stupider and fucked up over here. Living in Wisconsin, I recently found myself under the despotic rule of governor Scott Walker, who campaigned by saying that he would cut a few union benefits. After being elected, he turned down 2B in federal dollars for a high speed rail from Milwaukee to Madison (Milwaukee is the largest city in the state, and has a rail line to Chicago. Madison is the capital city and where I live.), and then from Madison to Minneapolis (largest city in the state of Minnesota). After turning down two billion dollars, he then turns around and starts bitching about not having enough money in the budget. He then uses his artificial crisis to (illegaly, I might add) pass a bill into law that would remove all collective bar
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Border C
All worlds
22 May 2011 19:17Link
"That's still 36 million dollars a year. Now you show me how that is fair, how a lower class family earns $18,000 a year and with an executive earing 36 million? That's 2000 times the salary."
On a similar note, I think Blue, Wild, Scarlet, Keto, and all of those other bastards who spend more time playing this game and tweaking their economies should have to start paying the rest of our monthly GC fees because I don't have the time or the desire to log in as often as they do. How much fun would they have in this game if the rest of us weren't around? Clearly this is unfair.
On a similar note, I think Blue, Wild, Scarlet, Keto, and all of those other bastards who spend more time playing this game and tweaking their economies should have to start paying the rest of our monthly GC fees because I don't have the time or the desire to log in as often as they do. How much fun would they have in this game if the rest of us weren't around? Clearly this is unfair.
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Skandar (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
22 May 2011 21:31Link
@DoubleBob:
Been a bit pissed off (that means angry to those of you who are of the American persuasion) by all the Brit-bashing since the Deepwater Horizon spill. So...
In 1998 British Petroleum merged with Amoco (based in Chicago, USA) and officially changed its name to BP (removing the 'British' part). It is listed on both the NYSE and FTSE (primary listing).
Its current CEO is Bob Dudley, born in Queens, New York, USA. Yes, Tony Hayward who was CEO at the time of Deepwater was British. Its current chairman is Swedish.
The Deepwater rig was built by a South Korean company leased from an American company operating under a Marshall Islands flag-of-convenience. The project was only 65% owned by BP, 25% was owned by the Anadarko Pe
Been a bit pissed off (that means angry to those of you who are of the American persuasion) by all the Brit-bashing since the Deepwater Horizon spill. So...
In 1998 British Petroleum merged with Amoco (based in Chicago, USA) and officially changed its name to BP (removing the 'British' part). It is listed on both the NYSE and FTSE (primary listing).
Its current CEO is Bob Dudley, born in Queens, New York, USA. Yes, Tony Hayward who was CEO at the time of Deepwater was British. Its current chairman is Swedish.
The Deepwater rig was built by a South Korean company leased from an American company operating under a Marshall Islands flag-of-convenience. The project was only 65% owned by BP, 25% was owned by the Anadarko Pe
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Skandar (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
22 May 2011 21:45Link
And another thing...! (Oh, I'm so ranty today.)
Actually, this is more in support of your point about income inequality, DoubleBob. This article deals with the societal effects of income equality (it's actually discussing the link between religion and societal problems, but the combination of the two studies at the end strips out the religion bit).
It seems (final graph) that there is a strong correlation between income inequality and societal problems (the study included 25 things like murder and suicide rates, prison population, mortality, sexually transmitted diseases, abortions, marriages, deaths, alcohol consumption, poverty and unemployment). The US shows up quite badly in this, most of Europe does fairly well, as usual the UK straddles the Atlantic being neither as good as Europe, nor as bad
Actually, this is more in support of your point about income inequality, DoubleBob. This article deals with the societal effects of income equality (it's actually discussing the link between religion and societal problems, but the combination of the two studies at the end strips out the religion bit).
It seems (final graph) that there is a strong correlation between income inequality and societal problems (the study included 25 things like murder and suicide rates, prison population, mortality, sexually transmitted diseases, abortions, marriages, deaths, alcohol consumption, poverty and unemployment). The US shows up quite badly in this, most of Europe does fairly well, as usual the UK straddles the Atlantic being neither as good as Europe, nor as bad
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Skandar (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
22 May 2011 21:49Link
BLAST! I got so caught up in my little ranting episode that my cup of tea has gone cold!
P.S. In case you forgot, I'm British.
P.S. In case you forgot, I'm British.
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Crafty (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
22 May 2011 22:11Link
Then act like one and have an ale and a pie, not a sissy cup of rosy... what are you, my grandmother?
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Skandar (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
22 May 2011 22:19Link
Oh, yis. and dun maybe ay tinnie bowl out in me fottee shert and happy slap a chav while chant'n me support fe me local team!
(That was part translated by the Scouse translator at woohoo.co.uk!)
We're just like Americans. We're in-duh-viduals! (And I'm actually more of a coffee drinker anyway)
(That was part translated by the Scouse translator at woohoo.co.uk!)
We're just like Americans. We're in-duh-viduals! (And I'm actually more of a coffee drinker anyway)
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Crafty (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
22 May 2011 22:24Link
Haha, like it, a scouse reply to a cockney crafty.
Fair play to ya me ole china.
Fair play to ya me ole china.
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Billy_Bob_Joe_Bob_Steve (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
22 May 2011 22:30Link
Ugh, I hate coffee. And for the record, BP is headquartered in London, and its stock is primarily listed there. There's hard evidence that BP cut corners on the safety of the Deepwater oil rig. Despite the fact that the Deepwater project wasn't fully owned by BP, 65% is still very obviously a majority hold. I'm not placing this only on the British, or on all of the British (just a select few) it was, for the most part, a British project. Hey, what does an American accent sound like to you people?
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Scarlet (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
23 May 2011 01:33Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:Very bad example. A lot of infrastructural investments have what is known as a natural monopoly. Taking the British water industry as an example, most companies competed bitterly over the valuable urban business to the point where prices were so low that none of the companies could turn a significant profit, and rural communities were left with no competition & high prices due to the slim profit margins of sparsely populated regions. These multiple systems were not used to capacity (failing the prime test of capitalism - effective distribution of capital to places where it is best invested). Eventually, following a series of water-borne epidemics in the mid-19th Century (not necessarily linked to private water supplies), the government allowed municipal authorities to invest in the water & sanitation of their municipalities. They were better able to raise the capital needed for i
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Scarlet (Fearless Blue)
All worlds
23 May 2011 02:03Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:I'm sure we both agree that defrauding investors by using inaccurate data is something that should be dealt with by the courts, thus something that is under the power of government. However, there is a difference between saying something should be illegal and saying something should be regulated. Committing fraud should be punished, but imposing regulations won't reduce fraud anymore than maki- Bailout of London and Continental Railways as their build and operate contract for the UK's first high-speed line caused major financial difficulties due to over-optimistic revenue forecasts (again, capital can only be rationally invested if you assume that all parties act rationally - unfortunately, companies have a poor track-record at this as they often 'big-up' their forecasts to attract investment. Better government regulation can help mitigate this). <!-/Quote-!>
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Billy_Bob_Joe_Bob_Steve (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
23 May 2011 03:12Link
Well, think of it this way. Imagine you're being mugged. Now imagine you have three choices. The first one is to not give the robber anything, get shot, die, and still lose your money. Your second choice is to give the mugger your money, wait for him to leave, call the cops, and never hear from them again. Now your third choice is to pay a slightly higher tax, which then is pooled with other peoples taxes, and sent to the mugger when he really needs it, thus eliminating the need for him to rob you. Which sounds best to you?
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Skandar (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
23 May 2011 10:21Link
"How do you suppose that a municipalities acquires the money" (a) competition when prices are low
If a situation arises where private investment isn't forthcoming and it looks likely that no improvement in services is likely from the private sector, the government should step in. Often this will mean nationalisation, or enforced monopoly. This is what much of Europe did during the '50s and '60s (and, yes, made a shocking cock-up of much of it - but following the wide-scale destruction after WW2, private funding simply wasn't available for rebuilding). Britain has since managed to sell off many of its nationalised assets, returning them to the private sector.
(b) municipal raising of capital
Government-backed entities have significantly lower borrowing costs. That's the main reason London & Continental went tits-up. The UK government ended up paying more than the construct
If a situation arises where private investment isn't forthcoming and it looks likely that no improvement in services is likely from the private sector, the government should step in. Often this will mean nationalisation, or enforced monopoly. This is what much of Europe did during the '50s and '60s (and, yes, made a shocking cock-up of much of it - but following the wide-scale destruction after WW2, private funding simply wasn't available for rebuilding). Britain has since managed to sell off many of its nationalised assets, returning them to the private sector.
(b) municipal raising of capital
Government-backed entities have significantly lower borrowing costs. That's the main reason London & Continental went tits-up. The UK government ended up paying more than the construct
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rep (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
26 May 2011 06:14Link
Okay, I know this is a dead thread, but I've been ignoring the forum because the last time I was a "simmer" I ended up spending most of my time on the boards rather than watching my empire and enterprise.
But I have some down time while I wait for the month to change over so I popped over and saw this.
First off, I agree that it is insane to subsidize ANY private enterprise. And Democrats (TARP, GM buyout, etc.) are just as guilty as Republicans in that regard.
Do you know why the commodities market has two different types of sugar contracts, sugar 11 and world sugar? Because Dem. Senator Inoue decades ago convinced the Senate to make it illegal for any company in the USA to use sugar in their products unless they bought it in the US. Of course his state, Hawaii, just happened to be the largest cane producer in the country. The result was most companies switched to corn syrup as a sweetener because US sugar was roughly twice
But I have some down time while I wait for the month to change over so I popped over and saw this.
First off, I agree that it is insane to subsidize ANY private enterprise. And Democrats (TARP, GM buyout, etc.) are just as guilty as Republicans in that regard.
Do you know why the commodities market has two different types of sugar contracts, sugar 11 and world sugar? Because Dem. Senator Inoue decades ago convinced the Senate to make it illegal for any company in the USA to use sugar in their products unless they bought it in the US. Of course his state, Hawaii, just happened to be the largest cane producer in the country. The result was most companies switched to corn syrup as a sweetener because US sugar was roughly twice
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Skandar
All worlds
26 May 2011 11:45Link
Steady on! It's only been 'dead' 3 days. Doubt it's had its last rites read to it yet.
@rep, nice to have an extra voice in the debate. I'm originally from, and currently resident in the North West having moved back up here from London.
"I agree that it is insane to subsidize ANY private enterprise."
Actually, I don't think it's insane to subsidise ANY enterprise. I don't think it's sane to subsidise Big Oil companies who don't need it. Nor do I think that companies who are struggling should always be subsidised. It only makes sense (to me) when there are important skills or technologies that could do with being preserved.
Example: Rolls Royce Aero Engines. Development of its RB211 engine proved more difficult and expensive than expected and the company went into receivership. As one of the few remaining aero engine manufacturers in the UK, the government nationali
@rep, nice to have an extra voice in the debate. I'm originally from, and currently resident in the North West having moved back up here from London.
"I agree that it is insane to subsidize ANY private enterprise."
Actually, I don't think it's insane to subsidise ANY enterprise. I don't think it's sane to subsidise Big Oil companies who don't need it. Nor do I think that companies who are struggling should always be subsidised. It only makes sense (to me) when there are important skills or technologies that could do with being preserved.
Example: Rolls Royce Aero Engines. Development of its RB211 engine proved more difficult and expensive than expected and the company went into receivership. As one of the few remaining aero engine manufacturers in the UK, the government nationali
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Billy_Bob_Joe_Bob_Steve (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
26 May 2011 14:09Link
@rep: You ever try to take the bus from Madison to Chicago? And then a plane to Minneapolis, so that you can FINALLY catch your flight to San Fransisco? It's f**king insanity. A high speed rail to Minneapolis would not only be much more efficient for things like that, it would also be better for Madison-Milwaukee. The line already exists for Milwaukee-Chicago. And I know that the money would only be able to be spent on a high-speed rail, and that the state would have to pay for it, but maybe that would convince the governor to actually increase taxes on everybody, not just the lower and middle classes. Further, the eventual end to the high-speed rail would actually have connected most of the Midwest, improviing tourism, business revenues, and allowing businesses to receive supplies much quicker. on to the Gulf: I'm not saying everything was Britains fault. I'm not saying that they should have been (completely) responsible for th
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rep (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
26 May 2011 15:59Link
DoubleBob (I like that name, by the way),
I can understand where you're coming from. Never been in Madison, only place I've ever been in in Wisconsin is the Dells. I used to live in the pig and corn state south of you. I also know what the insanity is in taking buses.
I guess I'm just skeptical about anything the government gets their fingers in, except maybe the military (and they screw that up too paying 500 bucks for a hammer!). Someone mentioned Amtrak earlier in the thread. The Fed took over the Penn Central railroad 40+ years ago to keep it from going bankrupt. "Just until they can get back on their feet". They're still pumping huge bucks into it every year.
An Amtrak story for you. My freshman year at Michigan State University we were not allowed to have cars on campus. I lived in Pennsylvania, ten hour drive by car (14 by bus). I decided it would be a lot more comfortable to take the t
I can understand where you're coming from. Never been in Madison, only place I've ever been in in Wisconsin is the Dells. I used to live in the pig and corn state south of you. I also know what the insanity is in taking buses.
I guess I'm just skeptical about anything the government gets their fingers in, except maybe the military (and they screw that up too paying 500 bucks for a hammer!). Someone mentioned Amtrak earlier in the thread. The Fed took over the Penn Central railroad 40+ years ago to keep it from going bankrupt. "Just until they can get back on their feet". They're still pumping huge bucks into it every year.
An Amtrak story for you. My freshman year at Michigan State University we were not allowed to have cars on campus. I lived in Pennsylvania, ten hour drive by car (14 by bus). I decided it would be a lot more comfortable to take the t
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rep (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
26 May 2011 16:42Link
To Skandar:
Should have answered you first, but wasn't paying attention.
Your example of Rolls was excellent. Where issues of national security are involved you are "spot on" as we say in the colonies. Rolls produces engines for the RAF, am I right?
When you say the Northwest would that be Scotland?
Jeez, I'm all over the map here! Funny you mention Japan. As a boy my family spent 5 years there (the dark ages of 1965-70)and I rode a lot of Bullet trains. So I'm a fan of HSR too. It's just a shame that the US, who rivaled Britain's rail system throughout the 1800s and the first half of last century, should have given it up. Not just passenger service either. It boggles the mind how much more freight can be put on a train as opposed to trucking it. If there were a reasonable train system here we could get a lot of diesel guzzling, traffic clogging "lorries" off the highway. Not to mention
Should have answered you first, but wasn't paying attention.
Your example of Rolls was excellent. Where issues of national security are involved you are "spot on" as we say in the colonies. Rolls produces engines for the RAF, am I right?
When you say the Northwest would that be Scotland?
Jeez, I'm all over the map here! Funny you mention Japan. As a boy my family spent 5 years there (the dark ages of 1965-70)and I rode a lot of Bullet trains. So I'm a fan of HSR too. It's just a shame that the US, who rivaled Britain's rail system throughout the 1800s and the first half of last century, should have given it up. Not just passenger service either. It boggles the mind how much more freight can be put on a train as opposed to trucking it. If there were a reasonable train system here we could get a lot of diesel guzzling, traffic clogging "lorries" off the highway. Not to mention
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Skandar (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
26 May 2011 18:02Link
@Rep:
According to wikipedia, Rolls aero engine clients include 500 airlines, over 100 armed forces totalling over 50,000 engines in service! Yep, you're right, it does include the RAF on our Tornadoes, Eurofighters (via the Eurojet consortium) and recent versions of the Harrier (until withdrawal from service last March).
Sorry for the confusion of my exact whereabouts - I forget that non-Brits can be confused by the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England, often using them all interchangeably. By The North-West, I mean North-West England (I live between Liverpool and Manchester).
Also, re: freight by rail, the US rail freight network is far better developed than here in Europe. Not to mention the massive energy efficiencies the companies have managed in 29 years (104% increas
According to wikipedia, Rolls aero engine clients include 500 airlines, over 100 armed forces totalling over 50,000 engines in service! Yep, you're right, it does include the RAF on our Tornadoes, Eurofighters (via the Eurojet consortium) and recent versions of the Harrier (until withdrawal from service last March).
Sorry for the confusion of my exact whereabouts - I forget that non-Brits can be confused by the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England, often using them all interchangeably. By The North-West, I mean North-West England (I live between Liverpool and Manchester).
Also, re: freight by rail, the US rail freight network is far better developed than here in Europe. Not to mention the massive energy efficiencies the companies have managed in 29 years (104% increas
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rep (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
26 May 2011 20:20Link
Skandar,
My mistake for not catching the English distinction. If you meant the Northern section of the island you would have SAID Scotland! Blame it on fatigue.
On my first visit to the UK my girlfriend and I were in Edinburgh to see the castle and I said to someone standing nearby "we don't have castles in the US like you guys do in England."
Fortunately I was fast in those days and outran all the people who came after me!
Learned some new cuss words too.
Re: the climate change. As I said, it does seem clear that the Earth is in a warming trend. But the science of climatology is relatively new, and accurate records from the past are hard to come by. So whether this is simply a cyclical phenomenon or set off by humans is where the debate lies. It has to be stated that the proponents did not do themselves any favors in the way they have handled t
My mistake for not catching the English distinction. If you meant the Northern section of the island you would have SAID Scotland! Blame it on fatigue.
On my first visit to the UK my girlfriend and I were in Edinburgh to see the castle and I said to someone standing nearby "we don't have castles in the US like you guys do in England."
Fortunately I was fast in those days and outran all the people who came after me!
Learned some new cuss words too.
Re: the climate change. As I said, it does seem clear that the Earth is in a warming trend. But the science of climatology is relatively new, and accurate records from the past are hard to come by. So whether this is simply a cyclical phenomenon or set off by humans is where the debate lies. It has to be stated that the proponents did not do themselves any favors in the way they have handled t
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Billy_Bob_Joe_Bob_Steve (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
26 May 2011 20:37Link
@ Skandar: there are no reasons to bash unions at any time. they're extremely important. As part of the new Wisconsin budget bill, with collective bargaining gone, there will effectively BE no unions. My mother, as an employee of the state, will have to pay more for health insurance. My brother, father, mother and I all have pre-existing conditions, sometimes several. This calculates to a much larger amount of money spent. It will also increase the amount employees will have to pay to their pensions, cut medicare, and cut badgercare. It will take money from the public education system, of which I am still a part of. To top it all off, in addition to the extra money paid to pensions/for health insurance, there are going to be large pay cuts. the governor refused to negotiate with unions, that's practically a quote. And he refused to get rid of the collective bargaining part of the bill even after unions agreed to pay cuts. He also made sure the bill
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rep (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
26 May 2011 20:50Link
Skandar,
Forgot to respond to the capitalism/socialism bit.
From my studies and experience, pure forms of either are negative.
Pure socialism basically is just communism by another name. Pure capitalism is too open to abuse such as the UK of Charles Dickens' time and the railroad "robber barons" here in America.
The key of course is to find some sort of balanced approach which provides a viable social safety net without disincentavizing people to work.
One of the factors in the demise of the USSR was the fact that people were pretty much guaranteed a job and a subsistence level existance regardless of productivity.
Crop yields fell dramatically in the years of communism, leading the USSR to import wheat to feed their population.
It's not well known, but the Pilgrims who came to America started out with a communist system. Everything was communal, there was no private ownership. Didn't
Forgot to respond to the capitalism/socialism bit.
From my studies and experience, pure forms of either are negative.
Pure socialism basically is just communism by another name. Pure capitalism is too open to abuse such as the UK of Charles Dickens' time and the railroad "robber barons" here in America.
The key of course is to find some sort of balanced approach which provides a viable social safety net without disincentavizing people to work.
One of the factors in the demise of the USSR was the fact that people were pretty much guaranteed a job and a subsistence level existance regardless of productivity.
Crop yields fell dramatically in the years of communism, leading the USSR to import wheat to feed their population.
It's not well known, but the Pilgrims who came to America started out with a communist system. Everything was communal, there was no private ownership. Didn't