The hypocrisy of the US Republican Party

Doublebob,
I am sorry about your families' pre-existings. I followed the entire thing rather closely as my girlfriend is a public school teacher here in PA.

Not to make light of the difficulties and choices you and your family are facing, but you need to be aware that a lot of the problems are because of the unions past demands and actions.

Health insurance demands by the unions in the past led to the state paying (I think) about 90%, and that will drop by about 5%. The average American is really lucky to have an employer who pays 50%. I get 25% paid by my employer.

Same thing applies to the pension. The added payments are a small %. Yes, to a struggling family it will be hard. I don't have the figures at hand, but I'll use my girlfriend's plan as an example. The state provides her 5% per pay whether she contributes or not. For the first 5% of her own money they match one for one. For the next 5% they

@rep: 1. whose side are you on? just to be clear. 2. despite the fact that the democrats were in Illinois to prevent the vote, that does not change the fact that the bill was passed without a quorum, and therefore illegally. It was also illegal because the people weren't told 24 hours in advance. It was a surprise vote, and let's not forget the fact the only reason it made it to the Senate in the first place was because it was passed through the Assembly in a fifteen second vote, which was agreed on by the Republicans. And the courts haven't said it was legal, it's currently being blocked by an injunction, or if its not anymore, its because Justice David Prosser of the Wisconsin Supreme Court was recently elected, and as they say, "a vote for Prosser is a vote for Walker". It really is, he said himself he sides with Walker on a lot of things. Let's not forget that in paying taxes to the state, the capitol will be repaired with th

Quick post to say I agree with BBJBS about Republicans never agreeing to raise taxes on the rich (including oil companies - finally brought it back to the original topic!). I thought they were supposed to be the party of fiscal responsibility in the States? Take a look at which Presidents have managed to deliver balanced budgets over the last 30+ years. I'll give you a clue - it's only the Democrat ones and only during their second term after inheriting a huge deficit during their first.

Massive post to follow.

@DoubleBob

I'm sorry, I didn't realise how important they were in the States. Medical cover is automatic over here and we don't need our unions to fight that corner for us. I think we Brits still have the Winter of Discontent in our minds. It was before my time, but the 70s was a decade of industrial strife in Britain culminating in widespread strike action by public sector (and some private sector) workers. It led to coffins piling up in Liverpool and Tameside, piles of uncollected rubbish, petrol distribution problems (due to a lorry drivers strike) and hospitals only taking emergency patients.

The miner's union had made demands for pay rises earlier in the decade (the Conservative government had capped them to control inflation - coal mining was a heavily-subsidised nationalised industry back then and so came under the same public

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The general consensus seems to be that he is cutting too deep, too soon. Even the OECD seems to think we might be moving too fast.<!-/Quote-!>

Contractionary policy is contractionary. Surprise!
If only that confidence fairy was around...

I have several questions. Are conservatives over there the same as there are on the west side of the Atlantic? Uneducated, anti-education loser against taxing the rich, for taxing the poor, and over all put money and votes over the actual voters? Two: WTF is a lorry driver? Do you mean someone who drives hearses? Also, sounds like unions are more accepted over here. Most (if not all) public employees are unionized.

Skandar first-
Sorry for the delay. Thunderstorms rolled through and killed the electricity. Just got it back.

We're in agreement with basic infrastructure being done by a government (or at least a heavily regulated private enterprise). Roads, rail, and utilities are too vital to a nation's interests to be left alone.

GW Bush in his second term was pretty much an idiot, but he did not go around on any apology tours. He didn't figuratively slap the Queen, nor return the bust of Churchill which had held a place of honor here since WWII. He didn't make a pathetic attempt to speak with an Irish accent in Dublin. He didn't repeatedly attempt to throw our only TRUE middle eastern ally under the bus.

Will have to correct you on the Falklands. As with Libya, no actual military cooperation ocurred (darn it, I need a spell-check!), however full use of air bases, naval resupply points, air and naval &

Doublebob,

Since neither of us will change each others' minds about the situation in Wisconsin, this will be my final thoughts on that subject.

(1)I'm on my side, and only my side. I call things as I see them. Picking sides is for folks who (a)don't know the issue, or (b)don't care about the issue but want acceptance from one side or the other, or (c)are either incapable or unwilling to rationally look at an issue and decide for themselves.

The issue is resolved. The injunction was overturned by the appellate court, your Attorney General delayed implementing it as long as he was legally allowed, but his time limit ran out and he was forced to put it in effect. That's the reason for the "recall" votes, hoping to get enough Dems in office to overturn it before it takes full effect. Prosser's election had nothing to do with it other than his vote would be the vote that

Farmer Bob, are you out there? I need your help!

Tee hee, I keep forgetting you ex-colonial types don't speak proper English. Yep, lorry is English for truck in American English. We'd be more likely to think of a truck as a pickup (truck) rather than an 18-wheeler (not that we have those - our roads are too narrow and twisty).

Side note: the most fun I've had with our language differences was when an American friend asked where so-and-so was and I replied, "on a fag break" forgetting its American English meaning (it's slang/informal English for cigarette). The look on his face was priceless.

As I said, our view of unions has been coloured by the crippling powers they exercised in the 70s. Membership has plunged from 80% to 30%, most of whom are in the public sector.

@Double Bob Our conservatives are less easily pigeon-holed. They have recently undergone a top-down paint job on social liberalism issues in order to get re-elec

@rep: that post was way to long to respond to, plus when you count skans post, I couldn't keep going back up and down. I'll print it out later and respond to it there, although since most of your points were about the Wisconsin budget and that's the last you'll say on it, it doesn't really matter. Also, if you EVER call me farmer bob again, I will find out who you are, hunt you down and slit your throat while you fucking sleep.

Doublebob,
The Farmer Bob reference wasn't to you. He was a "forum-mate" of mine from 3 years ago, and I'm wondering if he's still involved in the game. Sorry you took it wrong.

I was tired and cranky (us old people get that way) when I wrote the last post, so if you want to continue on the Wisc. thing feel free.

Might be a little tough for you to catch me unaware, remember I'm a military vet. Not to mention ex-postal worker!

Skandar,
Good idea about new thread re soc. con. discussion. Thread is getting too long. I can see we'll have some things to discuss. This weekend is a holiday over here, Memorial Day, so I may miss a day or two. We're going on a weekend holiday (vacation BBJBS). The woman doesn't like me spending more attention to the laptop than I do her!

Enjoy, all.

Anyone else noticed that the game sells vacation (US English) and cars (proper English), not holidays (proper English) and automobiles (US English)?

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Skandar,
Forgot to respond to the capitalism/socialism bit.
From my studies and experience, pure forms of either are negative.

Pure socialism basically is just communism by another name. Pure capitalism is too open to abuse such as the UK of Charles Dickens' time and the railroad "robber barons" here in America.<!-/Quote-!>

From my studies/experience, pure capitalism is the only proper system. For example, what kind of abuse are you referring to with the "UK of Dickens' time"? As this quote stands, I cannot challenge it because I know not what grounds you are making it. Regardless, I'm confident that its foundation can be toppled. As for the "robber barons," these are not an example of pure capitalism, but private/public partnerships (the ones I mentioned earlier that were doomed to corruption).
As an example, the Central P

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Social conservatism
Might be an idea to spin this off into a separate topic thread. Anyway, I'm an agnostic (technically a theological noncognitivist, but let's not split hairs), secular, pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-assisted suicide, anti-abstinence-as-a-reproductive-health-strategy, anti-right to bear arms (not really an issue over here), slight leftie liberal. Pick a target and we'll start from there.<!-/Quote-!>

I'm an atheist that differs from you in being pro-abstinence-or-at-least-anti-promiscuity-(but-regardless-not-the-business-of-the-state)-as-a-reproductive-health-strategy, pro-right-to-bear-arms, and pro-pure-capitalism-as-the-only-moral-political/economic-system.

"Anyone else noticed that the game sells vacation (US English) and cars (proper English), not holidays (proper English) and automobiles (US English)?"

Who calls cars automobiles????

And FarmerBob is back under another name. I don't recall what it is at the moment.

Scarlet,
Welcome back to the discussion. I remember you from your previous incarnation; always respected your opinions, and bow at your knowledge of SC.

The London of Dickens was not one of Britain's finest moments. Factories in the city were filled with child labor and women forced to work 16 hours per day, 6 days per week. In some cases the workers were literally chained to their work stations. The matches of the day were made with phosphorous, which prolonged exposure to produces a condition called "flossie jaw". This turns a person's skin green, eats the body's bone structure, and is (or was) 100% fatal.

My bad for using the robber barons as an example. I researched your statements re the transcontinental railways; you are 100% correct.

And J.J. Hill was an extraordinary man. His Great Northern was a model of excellence. He was known (behind his back) as the "One eyed Terror" be

Border C, Thanks for the info about Farmer Bob. Will have to try and track him down. Seems as though a lot of folks have switched identities since '08, but it's good to see that some vets are still around.

@Skan: Have you even been to the United States? I don't know a single person who calls cars "automobiles".
@rep (post before last): Oh sorry, thought farmer bob comment was about me. It's memorial day over here too, we also get Monday off, and I know that in the UK it's called holiday. We here in the States forgive you (lol jk, don't mean to offend you), some of us actually do know a little bit of the language differences.

Rep, Bob is around as linebacker six.
Tell me, who were you in 2008?

Crafty,
Thanks for the info. I was known as JMR back in those days. Was a pupil of Tatooed Priest on GR. That man was good!

Had a lot of fun, but job interfered and had to give it up.

Now I'm here on LU trying to get used to 6 month days.

Now that I've identified myself, there will be some eye rolls from some of the vets! I wasn't an asshat, but my forum talks got some folks going, and got other folks doing the WTF routine.

Were you around back then?

I just about remember the name, but dont remember talking to you, or your posting habits! lol.

Good, this place needs stirring up every now and then.

Crafty,
Last post of the night. I'm on holiday (I'll use that since you're a Brit) and the laptop battery is going. Plus, if I don't get to bed soon there'll be some b--ing in the morning!

There was a Brit back in those days who took part in a lot of our discussions. Incredibly smart guy (he was a physicist in RL)who went by three names. I can only remember his first handle, it was Zeletic. Ring any bells?

Enjoy. And Skandar, I'll be back with a new soc. con. thread. Soon.

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I firmly believe in capitalism. But human nature includes a portion of greed in most. This can lead to "shortcuts" in safety measures and some exploitation. The vast majority of companies are conscientious (after all, if their plant blows up or the people all leave due to mistreatment they won't have a business left), but there are always some who want to "cut corners" for fast profits.

Fully agree that legislatures need to stay out of the day to day ops of corporations. My stand on regulations deal with safety measures, and to a certain degree working conditions. <!-/Quote-!>

Okay, I can see this. With the example of people being chained to workstations, I think this kind of destroys the idea behind "pure capitalism" which I would consider to be economic freedom - including the freedom to leave the workstation. The existence of literal chains

@Double Bob No, I haven't yet been to the States. I honestly thought you all called cars, autos or automobiles. No idea where I've got that from - enough American programmes make it over here for me to know better (just thought of a few episodes of Family Guy where they refer to their 'car'). D'oh!

@Scarlet "From my studies/experience, pure capitalism is the only proper system."
Another example for you - one policy of the British government that made the Irish Potato Famine (1845-52) even more catastrophic was its refusal to intervene in the free market. A previous famine in 1782-3 had been dealt with, in part, by closing the ports so that food grown in Ireland was used to feed the Irish.

No such restrictions were imposed during the Potato Famine and, peversely, exports of calves, most livestock, bacon and ham actually increased. Also, don't forget that the same potat