JERUSALEM

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I truly hope the British Muslims understand that most Britains are horrified at what they see in Gaza and don't class our women and children as legitimate targets.<!-/Quote-!>

Didn't they blow up subway train and a bus in London?

Keep on apologizing for Islamic ignorance and cultural brutality. The enemy is inside the gates. Now its too late. Unless mass deportations are brought back.

Are you advocating mass deportations?

Do you feel Muslims have no reason to feel aggrieved? Are you saying their religion/culture is inherently ignorant and brutal?

Now now JB AKA Sam.
Your starting to sound like the racist I F#@%ed up not so long ago for attacking my friend who told him that it was wrong to go around saying that all Blacks and Asians should be killed at birth.

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Good point too about the US needing to finally start applying some pressure to Israel. This is one of the really important points that needs to be made much more frequently. I'm not holding my breath that it will happen anytime soon, since the US Congress is pretty much a branch of the IDF, but pressure has to be applied.<!-/Quote-!>

Are you really claiming that your analysis of this conflict is based upon objective, neutral mindset and world view?

You are putting a lot of admirable effort into researching the very recent developements of this situation, while patently ignoring the effects of previous actions by both parties over generations. Persective, Perspective, Persective.

Proof incontrovertible:

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On the BBC James Zogby of the Arab American Institute said the Gaza "conflict" coul

What? That a people have had their land taken off them, their freedoms removed and their children killed?
What rationality can come from that?
Can you explain to us what you mean by human dimensions.

yes nix. Israeli and Palestinean, alike, can ask that question.

What land and freedoms have the Israelies lost?
How many Israelies have lost a child or their entire family?
I've seen the graves of the Palistinians. An old Palistinian soldier took me there. Tourists wont see them as they are off the tourist trail. Unlike the Jewish graves which are in full view of the tourists. Graves of entire Palistinian families, killed all at once. How can anyone come back from that?

Does it matter if it was a child? And how much do the number of deaths matter? A life is a life, as valuable as any other. But as some may say "a single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."

Don't play the ball to your side of the court disrespecting what you were defending: human rights.

Thank you, John. I doubt that many here grasp the principle that there is no difference between one life and one thousand.

Only the soldier is morally required to place, or have placed, a numerical value on his existence.

JR. I knew someone would say that
It explains why so many Gazans are willing to die and why so many Jews are'nt.
It explains why the Gazans will fight to the death and why the Jews will fire missiles and cluster bombs from F16's killing even more children so they don't loose soldiers.
I bet most Palistinian soldier's are fathers, motivated to fight because they have lost loved one's.
I bet most Israelie soldiers are soldiers, motivated to fight because they know there's little chance of them getting themselves killed.

FB. Is that what the Army taught you? If so, it explains alot about why the US/Israeli Army does what it does.
You talk about us utterly ignoring the human dimensions of this conflict, yet you make a comment like that.

If you two don't look back tomorrow at what you have just wrote and wish that you ha

nix. That post demonstrates complete and utter ignorance of nearly every facet of human existence.

I say that without rancor. Only sadness for you.

You edited a post above. I will answer your question of the human dimensions with two words.

love hate

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Are you advocating mass deportations?<!-/Quote-!>

Yes. Islam in its current state has no place in the civilized world. You cannot be a "good" Muslim and a good citizen of a Liberal Democracy. The two are not compatible.

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Do you feel Muslims have no reason to feel aggrieved?<!-/Quote-!>

Don't care. Many cultures are aggrieved without resorting to acts of random terror.

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Are you saying their religion/culture is inherently ignorant and brutal?<!-/Quote-!>

Yes. Islam is a religion/culture of hate, pedophelia, racism, brutality, sexism, and ignorance. All the explanations in the world pale in comparison to the reality of the Middle East and acts of cowardice committed in the name of Allah. If you

I said you were starting to sound like a racist.
And no. I can't and won't even try.
Shall we start a thread about Islam? as it seems we have found a subject that you are willing to be serious about.

Anyone else heard that the Zionists are now using chemical weapons in Gaza? If it's true thats three types of weapons that the Zionists are using thats illegal.

So lets go through the facts from after the arrival of the first Jews, to the slaughter we have today.

1) The Zionists turned up after the war with the help of the USA and through terrorist means, according to Britain and many other countries, occupied land of the Palistinians and forced them to live in refugee camps.
2) The 1967 war started and Zionists took over land to get to the border with Egypt, cutting the Palistinian land into two. But when the war was over, the Zionists kept the land.
3) The Palistinians created a liberation army to fight the Zionists.
4) The Zionists assassinated it's members with War planes, killing anyone who was near by.
5) The Palistinians retaliated with suicide bombers, killing anyone who was near by.
6) The Zionists started to build a wall seperating more Palistinian communities and gained some more land.
7) The Zionists support Hamas to divide the Pa

one more thing:

17) COAL!!!!!

Thats the second time you've said that.
Please tell me what you mean.
Please.

http://old.tcfreenet.org/people/hale/articles/bucket.htm


Coal, yes?

Who needs coal when these boys have got Gas?

(Curtain rises)
Farmer Bob: Numbers don't matter. One death is as bad as a million. Everyone is evil. These problems have roots we can never possibly understand.
(Washes hands and walks offstage.)
(Reappears briefly)
Farmer Bob: And I know more than you do about it so shut up. I stood on the Golan and...
(Curtain falls)

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Yes, Israelis deserve security. Twenty Israelis dead in 10 years around Gaza is a grim figure indeed. But 600 Palestinians dead in just over a week, thousands over the years since 1948 - when the Israeli massacre at Deir Yassin helped to kick-start the flight of Palestinians from that part of Palestine that was to become Israel - is on a quite different scale. This recalls not a normal Middle East bloodletting but an atrocity on the level of the Balkan wars of the 1990s. And of course, when an Arab bestirs himself with unrestrained fury and takes out his incendiary, blind anger on the West, we will say it has nothing to do with us. Why do they hate us, we will ask? But let us not say we do not know the answer.<!-/Quote-!>

Robert Fisk, The Independent, Jan 7

Farmer Bob: Robert Fisk has been covering the Mideast for decades, and has seen some incredibly horrific stuff up

Here's the full article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html

Have a read.

Good article. I disagree with none of it. The point?

Fisk is a respected journalist, but we aren't governed by journalists, have our diplomacy conducted by them, nor do they lead our militaries. No doubt that there are many journalists, among others, that would echo Fisk's statement completely. What of it?

You just can't grasp that I will not demonize or dehumanize Israeli or Palestinean?
Nor will I be an apologist for either's behaviors?

That recognizing that a blood feud is beyond outside resolution in the long term?

Apparently I am not alone in that view. Where are the nations lining up to commit troops to peacekeeping initiatives?

My humble suggestion that the Palestineans have the best hope of achieving their objectives through the nonviolent approach of Ghandi's political philosophies is not particularly insightful, unique, or mine originally. The idea has been proposed by ot

'Where are the nations lining up to commit troops to peacekeeping initiatives?'

Already been Vetoed by the USA

Vetoes by USA: 1972-1982
Subject Date & Meeting US Rep Casting Veto Vote
Palestine: Syrian-Lebanese Complaint. 3 power draft resolution 2/10784 9/10/1972 Bush 13-1(U.S.), 1
Palestine: Examination of Middle East Situation. 8-power draft resolution (S/10974) 7/2/1973 Scali 13-1(U.S.), 0 (China not partic.)
Palestine: Egyptian-Lebanese Complaint. 5-power draft power resolution (S/11898) 12/8/1975 Moynihan 13-1(U.S.), 1
Palestine: Middle East Problem, including Palestinian question. 6-power draft resolution (S/11940) 1/26/1976 Moynihan 9-1(U.S.),3 (China & Libya not partic.)
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Arab Territories. 5-power draft resolution (S/12022) 3/25/1976 Scranton 14-1(U

Nice post, nix.

And so Farmer Bob disappears over the horizon, in a blaze of moral certitude and self-righteousness that is visible from space.

Well, maybe now we'll find someone who's willing to look at what's actually going on, and not accuse anyone who disagrees with him of being a moral troglodyte.

Or put words in their mouth - apparently I believe "Israel is evil incarnate" - If I got to distort what my opponent says I guess I'd win every argument too!

To tell the truth I was getting a little tired of repeating myself too. It was stupid of me to expect much from this discussion. I have to remember this is the Internet, and for every person who's capable of intelligent discussion there are 10,000 Sams.

Or others who aren't Sams but refuse to use their intelligence.