OPINION OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! (White Giant)

Let's analyse this, shall we?

Guantanamo bay - Even people who've worked there, from the soldiers themselves to the lawyers who represent those who are unlawfully kept there aknowledge that torture occurs there.

Read into it a little bit. You'll find quite a bit of factual evidence listing the nature of the human rights violations occuring there.

And yes, capitalism is by it's very nature oppressive. But then, so is the racial segregation which still exists in the US. The right wing mindset of the US governmental institutions pretty much ensure that it stays that way, because, as all Americans know, "socialism" is "evil."

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Official FBI definition of terrorism:

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment there

So tell me, Zeta. How many civilians did I bayonet, rape, shoot, sodomize, and murder during my 2 tours in Vietnam?

You posted quotes. Were they from this thread or some other source?

Sorry. 26 years in uniform. That touched a nerve.

Zet, don't make me laugh.

First I am not about to start any kind real detailed argument over America's place in the world anymore.

This has been argued so many fricken times, it isn't even funny, especially the WWII thing.

NO WHERE does ANY American claim "socialism is evil." We are, believe it or not, quite socialist ourselves. We just happen to have Capitalism there.

About our capitalist economy:

NOWHERE ELSE in the entire world does a person born in a poor family have as good a chance of becoming rich and successful as in the US. A por person may have to work harder, that's a given, but poor people are not nearly as "stuck" in their class as most people would believe.

Anyway, it is Communism that is "evil." There IS quite a bit of difference.

Actually, 1 bit of WW2 history you got wrong:

North Africa: As I recall, it was the Americans, led by

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About our capitalist economy:

NOWHERE ELSE in the entire world does a person born in a poor family have as good a chance of becoming rich and successful as in the US. A por person may have to work harder, that's a given, but poor people are not nearly as "stuck" in their class as most people would believe.<!-/Quote-!>

Yes, about your economy; it's called the Anglo-Saxon model, based heavily on the economic modely pioneered by the natives of the British Isles (The Angles and Saxons, surprisingly enough) during the mid to late middle ages.

It's the same system they have had in Western Europe for centuries.

And I think you will find that the states around the world which offer the most fluid class structures, and thus potential for movement between the various classes are the places like Australia and Norway. The best represen

Zeta. I would not disagree with your criticisms. In point of fact, I have many complaints about this country, our culture, and at times, our political conduct on the world stage.

HOWEVER, what I do find fault with is the unrealistic comparisons of our nation to the truly horrific states of past and present. The differences are vast.
The "torture" at Gitmo would be considered friendly interview at many civil police stations in much of the world. I don't agree with current policy, these individuals are POW's, but their treatment has hardly risen to the level of "torture". Total lack of perspective.

That is the issue with many of your points. Valid, but overstated.

Words like genocide get tossed around and that damages credibility. Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot defined that word quite well. Applying it to American actions is gross mischaracterization.

Words have meaning.

You have an excell

Yeah. That was exactly what I was thinking what Bob said.

That whole crappy line of "Caps" was meant to be taken as a gross over-exageration, which apparently was lost to ya somehow, zet. The point I was subtly trying to make was to show how terribly over-exagerated you make the US's so-called "genocides," and "tortures," and "violation of human rights," and "hipocracies."

You should know by now, I should hope, that I am generally not one to right in caps, but when I do, it is usually to either drive home a point, or, in the case of my "wall of caps" to express exageration/sarcasm.

The countries we put pressure on and lecture the most are nations such as China, most of the African states, and the Mid-East.

About that article you posted (I stopped reading about halfway through, because I really feel I got the point)

What that article that you put on ther

That's exactly what I was looking for.

Thank you both, FarmerBob and Michael Morrison, for taking the time to do what you've done.

All the best.

hey im an american an damn proud of it if u think were racist check again!

Hey Zet:

Are you talking about the debate/discussion we carried on here? If you are, it was acutally kind of fun. I learned some things I never really knew

Debate often encourages one to learn things which exist outside of their "conventional" knowledge and comfort zone. Its when people start taking it personally that problems arise.

Though some of the facts are sketchy, and one or two are erroneous in the extreme (Second Battle of El Alamein, for example), I've learned a fair bit about America's role in the world, it's take on history, and how her citizens view themselves as a part of it.

I've always taken exception to the view that America is the "last bastion of freedom" or that the American interpretation of the world and particularly it's views on what constitutes liberty is what everybody should aspire to.

Freedom is a relative term, and to most it simply means the right to live without external (international) intervention in domestic policy. For others - and this is what I believe Americans to mean when they refer to "li

Many healthy judgements of human nature are labeled "racist".

While prejudging someone soley on the basis of skin color or ethnicity is the epitome of ignorance, making ration judgements of cultures or societies is not.

There are plenty of places in the world that I wouldn't want to raise a dog much less a human being. All cultures are not equal.

That said, people must be respected as individuals.

Yes, and "racism" is actually a survival trait for most animals, particularly humans. It is virtually impossible to completely wipe out all racist preconceptions you have, no matter how liberal one is.

As for "freedoms," I do not believe Americans are the most free people in the world. Our live are controlled more and more by the corporate hive. Corporations try to control every single aspect of their employee's lives.

For instance, I work at Arby's Roast Beef part time, just got hired there the other week, trying to get through my last year in college. They are trying to tell me I am not allowed to hang out with, or date, any other employees! My question is: HOW THE HELL CAN ARBYS TELL ME WITH WHOM I CAN ASSOCIATE WITH???? THAT is one of THE most basic of American rights! I literally told the head manager "well, screw that! I am 25 years old, and an American, If I want to hang out, or date anyone who works her

LOL Just don't be suprised, Michael, when you find out what real corruption is. We Americans take many things for granted.

Well, the only reason why I WOULD move out of this country, even to Europe, would because of a decent paying job. I would love to live in Italy for a while. Been there twice. Spent a whole summer there at my family's house in Palermo.

BTW, I got written up at work! The paper says "for being disrespectful to my superior." I refused to sign it. I told them, first off, the head manager is NOT my "superior" in any way. (I hate that word!) Second of all, I was not disrespectful. I merely stated my right as an American. I have the right to assembly, says it right in the constitution. Nobody, and nothing is going to take my rights away without a fight.

I also have the right to free speech, so if I have a problem with management, I am going to tell them so. I can be downright bullheaded.

Needless to say, I have been filling out new applications in my area lol.

American people are good the government is crazy. ITs like one of those crazy annoying players that likes invading and nuking C3 countries next to your own territory etc and thinks he controls it all.

I couldn't live in the US. I mean, they have a red, blue and white flag. How gay is that?!

i live in the USA, and i have to say, im not liking the way our government sticks its nose it hard working revolutionaries' business. how is the NPA or PKK supposed to get things done?

My opinion was:
PRO-KYOTO
ANTI-YANKIE

Until I met some Americans in Jerusalem. Now it's:
PRO-KYOTO
ANTI-UNITED STATES ADMINISTRATION

Britain is not a superpower at all. and for everyone's information in the American revolution when we americans got aid from the french navy the British were being aided by German hessians. The british had a blockade of ships and won most of the big city battles. and yet 13 colonies not even the full power of what america is today defeated the redcoats. in ww1 britain and france along with germany and russia went apeshit over a litte incident that occurred in austria-hungary. because of all there promises they had made to their alliances. In ww2 france was conquered by the germans although a little piece in the south was given to french traitors. As for britain it was pushed all the way back. when pearl harbor was attacked you had to have known Churchill had a smile on his face. It was the only way you were gonna get americans in the war. And when we did that's when we started to win. Who was the Supreme commander... oh was it Dwight D. Eisenhower

Sir Smokes Alot.
We honour our promises.

Britain knew war was not to be taken lightly after WW1. But when the line was crossed they did not hesitate to help their fellow man.
Our people in our cities were bombed to high heaven and still they stood strong. Strong enough to even mount a counter attack knowing the concequences they would ensue.
1 million tonnes of bombs dropped on one UK city in one night.
God saved our King and Queen many times.

Then America turned up.
Without Britain being there as a base, America would'nt have been able to have mounted a counter attack. Let alone win the war.
Anyway. I thought America got involved in the Europe War because their trade ships were getting torpedoed in the North Atlantic.

I'm sure aswell that Bush also had a smile on his face when we said we would stand shoulder to s

russia is a sad image of its former self.....if it resurrects its old communist ways, i will be happy

WE LOVE AMERICA

Why?

"The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage."
-- Thucydides,Ancient Greek historian and author, 460-404bc

Though frequently wrong-headed, immature, self-obsessed, and unwise, the American People have always proven to have courage when put to the test.

Why? Because this nation was built by those who had the courage to risk everything and cross the world to build for themselves a better life.

The secret of Happiness is Love, and the secret of Love, Understanding.

Alot of Americans only seem to understand how to get what they want, regardless to how it effects others.
Not alot of Love there.