Medical marijuana- full blown legalization or continued criminalization (Little Upsilon)

Let me explaing the topic head a bit further.
I'd like to discuss wether or not we should A. Legalize Marijuana for medical purposes only. B. Legalize it completely or C. Keep it an illegal substance.

Now bare in mind this is mainly a discussion of it in America. Any others are free to chime in.

Let me start. First off I do not use marijuana because it is illegal, too expensive and I just don't get a kick out of it anymore. Much to my dismay I was a "Stoner" in high school. So the effects of it are well known to me.
I do ,however, believe it should be legalized. The drawbacks are too miniscule to be considered hazardous. Alcohal, in my opinion, is far more destructive than "weed" ever was and ever will be.
As my studies have shown me, being a firm believer that if I were to use or do something I should understand what it is, there has only been one reported death due to marijuana. That being a poor fella who died of suffocation due to an allergic reaction. A chance of about 1 and a million. Now please compare that to the numbers of deaths world wide caused by alcohal, cigarrettes and prescription drugs. What is the lesser of the evils?

The human race has been using Marijuana for Thousands of years. It is said that in Ancient Summeria (see fertile crescant; premesopotamian) a king would pile the plant in a heap and light it on fire then pitch a tent over it and have a festival. One could even say that it is intertwined with our species. In fact the Human body has canabannoid receptors in 9 different locations in the body. The female body even has them in the uterous.

For those who don't know. The chemical that causes the "high" in marijuana is Tetrahydra canabannoid or THC. THC infact isn't what makes you "high". It simply causes an flood of endorphines in your system. The "high" you feel is simply your own bodies hormones. Marijuana also has many other chemicle in it (about 800 different chemicles). Some of which have been used to help treat- Glocoma, IBS, Depression, anxiety disorders, cancer and nausea. The chemicles are also immunal and metabolical modulators. Meaning they booste them up. Marijuana causes your body to metabolise glucose at an exponential rate, hence the "munchies". In high school I was a lazy, good for nothing stoner, who spent a lot of time getting stoned, playing video games and eating junk food. I went in for a physical to find that my blood sugar and blood pressure was nearly perfect. Due to my build at the time, I suprised the doctor along with myself.

The reasonings behind the illegalization of marijuana are argued constantly. Wether it's a destructive drug, or it was made illegal to give the U.S. gov't reason to deport Mexicans, was made illegal by Cotton lobbyist or due to an inability to tax it. What ever the reason they all suck. the destructiveness of marijuana pales in comparison to alcohal, methamphetamines, tobacco or opiates. No one smokes a spliff and beats up there wife. And if they do, they'd do it sober or drunk. It's just there disposition.

Now I will end this rant and wait for a response. Can't fire off all my ammo at once or it wouldn't be a good discussion.
Austia

It's a proven fact that "weed" not only interferes with the brain, but also permanently damages it if overused.

I have no problem with it being certified for medicinal use, because then it is issued in prescribed doses. But like any drug, from Asprin to Alcohol, overuse is highly dangerous, and should be prevented where possible, either through act of personal will or act of law.

Most behaviour-altering drugs need to be moderated in some way or another, as their effects can cause harm to others. But then again, if the only harm it causes is to the individual, then it's their right to abuse their body.

The real issues only come into play when we move on to enforcement.

The problem with the Libertarian approach to such issues, Austia, is that there is no counterbalance of responsibility to such freedoms.

Personally, I don't care if stoners want to spend their lives in a stupor, but the rest of society DOES end up subsidizing them eventually.

Just like alcoholics.

"It's a proven fact that "weed" not only interferes with the brain, but also permanently damages it if overused."

I know people who have used Marijuana for the upwards of 30 or 40yrs. They are still compitant and cohereant. Though they may lack a short term memory, which comes back with in a month of quitting.

"Personally, I don't care if stoners want to spend their lives in a stupor, but the rest of society DOES end up subsidizing them eventually.
Just like alcoholics

A stoner will never be as bad as an acoholic. The reasons being- Marijuana is not addictive. After 4 years of heavy abuse I just quit. It was that easy. Now imagine Years of hardcore alcohol and how hard it is to quit. Stoners can still walk talk and go days with out. The will never be a "Stoners anonymous" for there will never be a need.

Sorry Austia. That's just self-delusion.

I agree 100% with Austia! I was a big stoner in HS, just like him, but unlike him, I actually did VERY well in HS.

Well, I would not count myself to be a "big" stoner. I toked up mostly on weekends, and sometimes in the mornings before school started.

My experiences between alcohol and weed:

Well, there IS no comparison, for alcohol, whenever I get real hardcore plastered, I usually end up having to puke (the body is trying to get rid of that toxin. It is being rejected, simply because it floods the kidney, and the body is trying to protect that organ. So it tries to expel alochol for that reason.)

Weed: I have never had to puke after smoking weed. When I go for a walk, or do anything, I don;t end up stumbling around, I know exactly what I am doing, and where I'm at, and I ALWAYS remember what happened the previous night/day with perfect clarity.

Also, alcohol gives me a hangover, real bad, if I end up getting too damn drunk. Not so with weed. Ever.

Also, there are times where I actually CRAVE a good beer now and then. I have NEVER had a craving for smoking weed. Plus, like Austia, I have been able to just walk away, even after smoking it quite a bit for years. Although, I must say, I have never been addicted to alochol. But then again, I only get drunk maybe 2-3 times a year for the past 11 years, as opposed to getting high a good 250-300 times a year for the past 11 years (Well, excluding the last 4 years or so. I have not smoked an ounce of weed in that time)

Ok, so, getting drunk 2-3 times a year: Getting high 250-300 times a year.

Addiction: Some cravings for beer, especially on a hot summer day

None for weed whatsoever.

Now, those are a few comparisons of my own experiences.

As for legalization: I am a supporter of the legalization of marijuana, although I would not get all up in arms about it. I DO think it unfair that someone who smokes weed, when caught, gets thrown in jail. Whereas an alcoholic can continue to drink and beat his family every night, and possibly kill someone when driving, and the law does not do shit about it. Heh...unfair? That's actually down right ludicrous if you ask me!

There are, believe it or not, about as many stoners, if not, even more, who drive as drunks. Reason why that does not seem to be very true, is simply because a drunk cannot drive period. And while there IS some impairment for someone who is high, it is no where NEAR to the degree of someone who is drunk.

Simply put: there are FAR FAR fewer cases of car accident/deaths involving people who are high, as compared to those who are drunk.

And don't tell me to go and try to dig up statistics to back this up. Simply because a statistic for this probly does not even exist, since most people who are currently stoners will not come out and say "yea, I drive high." And most people who are drunks will not come out and say "yeah, I drive drunk." And if their never involved in an accident, then their cases will never be known.

And to say it is NOT true that there are just as many people high on the road as drunk, is just plain being naive. Something like 60% of the population (forget where I read that figure) actually DO smoke marijuana on a regular basis.....actually, if anyone cares to, here is perhaps the best site about marijuana that I was able to find:

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

They make comparisons...I mean COLD HARD FACTUAL SCIENTIFIC comparisons to alcohol and cigarettes. It also has many man works-cited links to pharmaceutical, and scientific research about the health affects of marijuana.

About the whole health thing:

OF COURSE weed can be extremely bad for someone when used too excessively. But then, so can McDonalds, Sugar, Carbs, Proteins (If not getting the proper exercise) Fats, Vitamins - All kinds....uummm....well, my point here is that, ANYTHING in excess is extremely harmful, even pure water.

They key to maintiaining health and longevity is MODERATION, MODERATION, MODERATION. Alcohol is VERY beneficial in moderation. So is weed. So are various types of foods. The exception ot that rule are cigarettes. There is NOTHING beneficial to a cigarette, even if you just have one.

Even a burger from McD's has some benefits, such as proteins, and sodium, for those who are athletes. (I do not condone eating anything from McDonald's, no matter what, anyway.)

The biggest reason why it is illegal is simply over taxation. Which I think is ridiculous. If it is illegal to make/sell alcohol without a license, it could be done with weed as well.

The costs associated with tracking down/arresting people who get high, as well as the violent crimes associated with the sale/distribution of the plant are simply too great, for such a minor...uuuhhh..."product."

Making it legal would not only reduce those costs, but could actuslyy be a signigicant source of income.

But then there would have to be a way to come up with a field sobriety test, along with a law for the maximum amount of THC allowed in a person's system for driving. But I am sure they could come up with a solution for that quite easily.

I read a study were it stated it is technically IMPOSSIBLE to OD on Marijuana. In fact the amount of THC used to make a lab rat OD was 1000 times the amount it takes to make the average person high.

Also, it is my personal belief that Fast food, which is high in Sodium, cholesteral, trans and sat fat, is WAY WAY worse than a little Mary Jane ever was.
Heart disease, diabetes, cancer ETC ETC. and yet it remains legal.

Nothing anyone can ever say will convince me that Marijuana should be illegal and alcohol should be legal. Most parents would rather their kids get drunk than high.Most parents Would rather buy their kids beer than pot.

I say, worste case. Years of smoking weed= lung cancer.

Breathing in our polluted air= lung cancer

Smoking cigarettes= lung cancer, emphysema, low birth weight, heart disease, esophagus cancer, oral cancer etc etc

Eating fast food= stomach cancer, heard disease, diabetes, stroke etc etc

Alcohol- ulcers, stomach cancer, brain damage, puking and Fetal Alcohol syndrom.

Now tell me...which is worse?

LOL I don't think there's a debate here at all. You pretty much just steamrolled any opposition argument!

I think the reason it's not legal is:
1) Everyone would grow their own, meaning no taxes for the government. People would probably drink less aswell, meaning less tax's from alcohol.
2) Everyone would stop and think about what's going on with the world, meaning a headache for the government.
3) It would also allow other drug's to become the focus of legalization.

I would say it should be used for medical reason's. Instead of popping those man made pill's, smoke the God made weed.

well, #1 is the reason behind the "taxes" argument we were making all along.

BUT, the thing is, the govmnt spends hella more money on prosecuting the offenders, than what they would lose out on taxes over alcy.

Altho, I highly doubt that it would dent the sale of alcy at all, anyways.

I also do not think there would be a big push on legalizing other drungs if weed became legal.

I agree Michael, Weed and meth are two completely different drugs. Such drugs as Shrooms and peyote may get a push for legalization if Pot is made legal. Meth, however, has such a taboo against it that it would never get legalized. Same with coke, heroin and acid.

"Sorry Austia. That's just self-delusion."


Sorry Grandpa, but your absolutely wrong on this.

I spent my after collee years in Southern Georgia/Panhandle Florida. Marijuana is intertwined into the culture with 0 room for taboo. Near everybody smoked herb, as if it were a meal, or breathing. Sure there were the guys that it took over there life but for the most part everone was funtional. I even met a couple of unbelievably smart cads down there, even with buck-teeth! j/k

Now if you smoked the kind when you were a youngster and it made ya lazy I feel sorry for ya!
Me? I like to go into my woodshop and turn a piece or pick up the guitar....


Never a dull moment,
Dirt.

Ever see what grass does to a combat unit's effectiveness? What a stoned grunt is good for?

Sorry. Been there. Seen it. Done it. Probably before many of you were born.

Grandpa ain't changing his mind.

But then again, I am a certified health nut. If it F*#%'s you up, it isn't good for you.

I DO, however, support as much personal freedom as possible. If any drugs were legalized tomorrow, I wouldn't personally care one way or the other.

My policy is simple.
If your habit, legal or not, harms me or mine, you won't live to face trial....

FarmerBob: Ever see what methyl amphetamine does to a combat unit's effectiveness? I have. Although, not before you were born, it seems :P

Yet, it's been disseminated in both world wars (and, yes, I actually had a world war II "ration" of MA).

I had read a study, recently, which was done for a Uni, that compared productivity and job losses, between "normal" and "smoking" groups. Guess what? There were less sick days taken, and productivity was actually higher in the *smoking* group. Damn, wish I had the link, cuz I had to re-read it to believe it.

Although, in retrospect, it does make sense. They'd be calmer, less stressed out than the "normal" sample. Hence, less sick days, and less stress can lead to being able to take on more responsibilities, hence more production.

Hey! Can we have our own countries disemminate Mary Jane to our populations? The study suggested at 20% productivity increase ;)

Kid's. It's not big or wise to take drug's.
Only a few people come out of an addiction. The rest just go from one hit to the other, until they are in prison, dead or have lost everything.
Let alone the damage that is done to your family.
It's like playing chicken with bus.
What's the point?
Now is not as important as the rest of your life.
And why make the rest of your life harder than it should be?

Peace&Hardcore...............Nix001
MNA

Live fast / die young.

As well, some drugs actually enhance your life quality. And, a study has shown (well, I found ONE study, but where there's one...) that one drug actually increases effectiveness of workers, and reduces their over-all stress levels.

Alcohol withdrawal kills. Nicotine is harder to quit than heroin. Those two are legal. And, I don't think it's a question of whether they're good or not, but about legalizing them.

Marijuana is nonaddictive! As I stated earlier- after 4 years of heavy toking I just quit. That simple. It may become a habit, like chewing your nails or flicking boogers at senior citizens, but it is, for all accounts and purposes, nonaddictive.

Andreja. We called them "green hornets" way back when and, yes, there are some mean side effects. We didn't use them in my paticular unit nor did we smoke anything,legal or not, in the field.

Lots of ways to die in recon, no sense providing self inflicted ones.

The use of amphetemines was authorized in certain units, rumor had it the green beanies in 'nam ate them like candy; and I've heard that pilots had access to them as well.

Don't really care. I have avoided most of the pitfalls of unhealthy living throughout my life, and have reaped the benefits of doing so.

There are many activities and substances that are legal but harmful to one's health. Alcohol and tobacco head that list. Is it hypocritical of society to ban some while keeping others legal? Of course it is. But tobacco use is being taxed out of existence and you are better off committing 1st degree murder than getting involved in an alcohol related incident.

I am not a health NAZI who feels that my views and lifestyle should be mandated by law; but I still see no reason in terms of cost/benefit for the legalization of general marajuana use.

Your arguments are STILL all variations of "It's not that bad."

A lot of people won't get on lithium and other prescribed MAOI's that might actually do them some good, but choose to self medicate with legal and illegal drugs.

Let me just ask a few common sense questions.

Would you want to operated on a surgeon under the influence of marajuana?

Would you want your kids driven to school by a stoned bus driver?

Would you want to drive beside an 18 wheeler whose driver was high?

Yes. The same answer would apply to alcohol, but the draconian legal consequences of irresponsible drinking are already codified.

Sorry. At best, it's just a really bad habit. Not justification for legalization.

Not to hijack the thread, but Andreja, are you another geezer like myself?

FarmerBob: no, different war. The "stasis" situation in Bosnia, was where I was at. Normally, people call it a civil war, and in most cases I'd agree, but I prefer the archaic "stasis" since it's a more general form. Civil wars are fought, in almost all cases, by two powerful factions. The conflict in Bosnia, was between three.
I was stationed 20 clicks from Vukovar. And, while my basic was done as a conscript, I switched to the "volunteer core" as soon as I could - better equipped than regular army, and a shorter chain of command. That was 8 months, in '93.
At Kosovo, that was 4 months, in '98. Which completed my "requirement" with regards to keeping my citizenship and not being under order of arrest due to dodging the "draft".

Now, in regards to the thread subject, you make all valid examples, but you forgot another one, which is actually a real case - even today.

Would you trust a methyl amphetamine (or its derivatives) jacked up jockey, in charge of a 2 million dollar plane, loaded with ordinance which could level towns? Unfortunately, the US military thinks it can.

The key condition, is control. Self-medication should be avoided.

I know the UK is different than the USA with the USA having a draft system. But in the UK they promote the army as a career.
Which I think is wrong.
Soldiers should be natural born soldiers.
Not drafted. Not because they want a career.
They join up because they are willing to die and if need be, kill for their country.
May be thats why some drafted/career soldiers need to be jacked up.
For if they wern't, theres the risk of their conscience guiding them instead of their orders.
Some might just simply curl up and cry.

Nix. I can only shake my head.

Andreja. Am I to conclude you are a Bosnian Muslim? Vicious conflict that was and I understand your ambivalence at defining it. I hope you understand the American military's reluctance to become involved in that situation.

I agree with your point about drugs being used by military personnel with or without the approval of their chain of command. All of them impair judgement and are dangerous. I never permited their use in any of my commands, though I was never aware that I had that option, either. The troops managed to get into enough trouble with alcohol off duty.

Well FarmerBob.
I suppose thats better than getting insulted.
Even though I hate not knowing why you shake your head at my comment.
For surley it's the same as a nurse. They become a nurse because they naturaly want to care for someone. Not to make money or have a secure career, but to care. For when they have a bad day/week/month and inside they are on the ropes, because caring is what they are about, their patients wont suffer.

Anyway. With the banks going under and credit becoming none existant, people wont be able to buy as many drugs as they used to. We have already seen it in the UK and the way the dealers got around their drop in takings, was to mix even more kinds of shite in everything. Even the weed has been contaminated with things like silicon spray, glass dust and anything else they can get away with.
I dread to think whats in everything else. I'm so glad I stopped all the man made shite years ago. Be careful out there. The way to test for glass on your bud is to lick it then grind your teeth. If it crunchies it's glass(some might say its the THC crystals. Why take the risk?). The way to test for silicon is when you smoke the first one, check the ash. If it goes hard and forms into a block, then it's silicon. Throw it away.


Wot No Happy Day's

I support full leaglisation, meaning no restriction so meaning no legislation.

I believe we all have rights to do things of no consequence to others and to gather collectively and do it.

I hear on the grapevine there's organic local produce completely clean doing the rounds here. Like may things in life, including food, water and alcohol, we need to take them responsibly/

People who assert their beliefs or principles over someone else will always be hit back at and are foolish for inteference when not needed.

I will take my freedoms as an earthly right and not by what oppressors allow me.

Oh how I wish Cannabis was legal. Got a little court case coming in a few months for been caught with a garden. Bastards! Its only a plant! 100% natural! How any goverment gets away with banning a God given plant is beyond me. I think goverments dont want there people to do any thinking and expand there minds, which cannabis certainly does that. I would disagree that its Non-addictive though. Ive been trying to stop for years and I just cant do it. Ive had all sorts of advice over the years but nothing works. For some its deffo addictive.