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nix001
All worlds
04 Sep 2008 15:09Link
Galvanization Of Diminutiveness
G O D
G O D
Simcountry
USA . . . war on the horrizon? The Sequel (Golden Rainbow)
All worlds
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Zeta
All worlds
04 Sep 2008 19:48Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:First off, every time I have argued/learned things from a scientist, I have yet to walk away being completely convinced that life "just happened." I also remain unconvinced that everything could have fallen into place to create even just 1 place in the entire cosmos, to have the absolute perfect conditions for abundant life. (Note here: I have used the word "ABUNDANT." That does not include a planet with a few extremophiles scattered around its surface. I mean REAL abundant life...fish, trees, dinosaurs, insects...those sorts of things.) Even with the trillions and trillions and trillions of stars in the entire cosmos, the chances of having a breatheable atmosphere, the perfect amount of solar radiation, with a magnetosphere to protect the planet from periodic solar flares, coupled with a thick ozone layer to further protect the planet. The planet being in the perfect "habita
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Michael Morrison (White Giant)
All worlds
04 Sep 2008 21:23Link
hhhmmmm, I think I'll look around for that particular book you mentioned at my local bookstore. Sounds interesting.
"Well, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
That quote is a double-edged sword ya know. That fits perfectly for my case in the existence of God. I would be a little more careful about how you would use that.
I like nix's definition of "God." He (she?) does not really have any exact definition of God. The way that I take it he means in his posts, is that God is undefinable. God is just...well...God...And that He is everywhere, and nowhere. From the least, to the greatest.
Also, I do not mean to say that there is NOT any other planet, or body out in space that does not support a lot of life. For all I know, most stars could be harboring life somewhere in their systems. Hell, there could be very intelligent beings, like us, who breathe methane, and oxygen would be t
"Well, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
That quote is a double-edged sword ya know. That fits perfectly for my case in the existence of God. I would be a little more careful about how you would use that.
I like nix's definition of "God." He (she?) does not really have any exact definition of God. The way that I take it he means in his posts, is that God is undefinable. God is just...well...God...And that He is everywhere, and nowhere. From the least, to the greatest.
Also, I do not mean to say that there is NOT any other planet, or body out in space that does not support a lot of life. For all I know, most stars could be harboring life somewhere in their systems. Hell, there could be very intelligent beings, like us, who breathe methane, and oxygen would be t
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nix001
All worlds
05 Sep 2008 03:03Link
Should have kept it at the last thought
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nix001
All worlds
05 Sep 2008 03:21Link
We make the world go around.
We might also be the cause of the world not going around for as long as it should have done.
With all the burning of the sub fuel's that the world(Earth) will need to keep her furnace's burning strong enough to create enough positive energy to compensate for her negative energy's(The rock) attraction towards the sun's thurst for negative energy to keep it's furnace burning. Opposite's attract.
We need to stop burning the sub fuel's.
The war on the horrizon for the US and the whole of world's population is........ To Desireless.
WHAT NO POLE
We might also be the cause of the world not going around for as long as it should have done.
With all the burning of the sub fuel's that the world(Earth) will need to keep her furnace's burning strong enough to create enough positive energy to compensate for her negative energy's(The rock) attraction towards the sun's thurst for negative energy to keep it's furnace burning. Opposite's attract.
We need to stop burning the sub fuel's.
The war on the horrizon for the US and the whole of world's population is........ To Desireless.
WHAT NO POLE
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Zeta (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
05 Sep 2008 13:42Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:"Well, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
That quote is a double-edged sword ya know. That fits perfectly for my case in the existence of God. I would be a little more careful about how you would use that.
<!-/Quote-!>
Far from it, actually. Add in Occam's Razor, and you will find that there is no way that this argument can fit for God. The simple truth is that using a God as an answer to any question raises far more questions than it answers, which makes any God inherently untenable as an answer to the grand question of "Why?"
<!-Quote-!>Quote:Unfortunately, the only evidence we have for the types of environments that life CAN evolve in, and flourish, is right here on our little round ball. The only rational conclusion we can come up with, about where and how life can evolve, is by l
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Michael Morrison (White Giant)
All worlds
06 Sep 2008 08:18Link
Hold on...typing response to Zeta...
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Michael Morrison (White Giant)
All worlds
06 Sep 2008 09:29Link
*Sigh*
[quote]"Far from it, actually. Add in Occam's Razor, and you will find that there is no way that this argument can fit for God. The simple truth is that using a God as an answer to any question raises far more questions than it answers, which makes any God inherently untenable as an answer to the grand question of "Why?""[/quote]
This, in response to my argument for the use of the quote, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
If God really really is real, and all you scientist types who claim He is not because of the "lack of evidence," does not mean He is absent! So yes, this absolutely does qork with my argument!
[quote]"You've made a couple of mistakes here. What evidence is there that all locations outside of our solar system are dead? Every star out there has a zone around it in which an earth-like planet could form and com
[quote]"Far from it, actually. Add in Occam's Razor, and you will find that there is no way that this argument can fit for God. The simple truth is that using a God as an answer to any question raises far more questions than it answers, which makes any God inherently untenable as an answer to the grand question of "Why?""[/quote]
This, in response to my argument for the use of the quote, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
If God really really is real, and all you scientist types who claim He is not because of the "lack of evidence," does not mean He is absent! So yes, this absolutely does qork with my argument!
[quote]"You've made a couple of mistakes here. What evidence is there that all locations outside of our solar system are dead? Every star out there has a zone around it in which an earth-like planet could form and com
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Michael Morrison (White Giant)
All worlds
06 Sep 2008 09:38Link
Sorry about some of the spelling errors and such. I am dislexic.
Like I said, you are not going to get me to budge from my position. So you arguing with me is kind of pointless. I already understand, or know, every single one of your arguments so far.
As for me, I am merely trying to state my own position, because I do not believe that you understand Christianity at all. Most Chrstians are not at all opposed to science. The Catholic School that I was institutionalized in even had Earth Science in 9th grade. A nun taught that class, and she taught about the Big Bang, evolution, and plate tectonics. She never once mentioned God in her classes either, except when she would pray before she began her lessons. This was approved curricula from the Catholic Church...Not even Catholics are opposed to science....
Like I said, you are not going to get me to budge from my position. So you arguing with me is kind of pointless. I already understand, or know, every single one of your arguments so far.
As for me, I am merely trying to state my own position, because I do not believe that you understand Christianity at all. Most Chrstians are not at all opposed to science. The Catholic School that I was institutionalized in even had Earth Science in 9th grade. A nun taught that class, and she taught about the Big Bang, evolution, and plate tectonics. She never once mentioned God in her classes either, except when she would pray before she began her lessons. This was approved curricula from the Catholic Church...Not even Catholics are opposed to science....
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FarmerBob (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
06 Sep 2008 09:52Link
@Michael:
Quote:
Reason being: why would we want to funnel billions of dollars into funding a space exploration mission, in which we are trying to find the slightest little microbial thing that is barely hanging onto life, when that money could better be spent trying to fix problems in the here and now, right on our own little planet....Such as trying to research more efficient, and better, green energy sources. Or coming up with a cure for cancer (I think they finally did like last week btw! I saw a headline that says that scientists found a cure for cancer!!) but didn't have time to read it.
The long term hope of humanity is off of this one planet.
Quote:
Reason being: why would we want to funnel billions of dollars into funding a space exploration mission, in which we are trying to find the slightest little microbial thing that is barely hanging onto life, when that money could better be spent trying to fix problems in the here and now, right on our own little planet....Such as trying to research more efficient, and better, green energy sources. Or coming up with a cure for cancer (I think they finally did like last week btw! I saw a headline that says that scientists found a cure for cancer!!) but didn't have time to read it.
The long term hope of humanity is off of this one planet.
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FarmerBob (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
06 Sep 2008 09:57Link
@Michael:
Quote:
I hardly believe I view anything with a closed mind. I am not a hard-core Old Testament believer. Some things I believe to be true, and some things are open for interpretation.
No picky-choosy. Take it all or reject it all.That is the essence of Faith.
Know the difference between righteousness and goodness and you will know all the monotheistic religions.
Quote:
I hardly believe I view anything with a closed mind. I am not a hard-core Old Testament believer. Some things I believe to be true, and some things are open for interpretation.
No picky-choosy. Take it all or reject it all.That is the essence of Faith.
Know the difference between righteousness and goodness and you will know all the monotheistic religions.
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FarmerBob (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
06 Sep 2008 10:01Link
At both of you metaphysicists:
Science is not a "thing" in which to believe or disbelieve.
It is a process of rationally organizing one's observations objectively.
Science is not a "thing" in which to believe or disbelieve.
It is a process of rationally organizing one's observations objectively.
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Michael Morrison (White Giant)
All worlds
06 Sep 2008 17:46Link
@Bob:
With the Bible, you have to understand, the Christian religion...all of the denominations...are based off the New Testament. Judaism is based off the Old.
Do I believe in the Bible: Sure. Do I believe God created the Earth in seven literal days: Absolutely not!
Besides, some of the language can be a bit ambiguous, which leaves it open for interpretation. I am speaking of the Old Testament here. Revelation is one of the most ambiguous books in the entire Bible, and is the only book in the New Testament in which I can't really have a ton of faith in.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the books most associated with Christianity. Those are the books that are the most important. It is the life and teachings of Jesus Christ....The word Christian, COMES from the word Christ....obviously...Like I've said, everything else is all just hogwash.
Also, exploring Mars for the tiniest bit of life IS kind of a was
With the Bible, you have to understand, the Christian religion...all of the denominations...are based off the New Testament. Judaism is based off the Old.
Do I believe in the Bible: Sure. Do I believe God created the Earth in seven literal days: Absolutely not!
Besides, some of the language can be a bit ambiguous, which leaves it open for interpretation. I am speaking of the Old Testament here. Revelation is one of the most ambiguous books in the entire Bible, and is the only book in the New Testament in which I can't really have a ton of faith in.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the books most associated with Christianity. Those are the books that are the most important. It is the life and teachings of Jesus Christ....The word Christian, COMES from the word Christ....obviously...Like I've said, everything else is all just hogwash.
Also, exploring Mars for the tiniest bit of life IS kind of a was
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Zeta (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
06 Sep 2008 23:32Link
Science should be the advancement of knowledge.
Religion should be the advancement of faith.
All in all, argument occurs because one side does not fully understand the point of view of the other.
Religion should be the advancement of faith.
All in all, argument occurs because one side does not fully understand the point of view of the other.
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Sam Houston (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
07 Sep 2008 17:06Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the books most associated with Christianity. Those are the books that are the most important. It is the life and teachings of Jesus Christ....The word Christian, COMES from the word Christ....obviously...Like I've said, everything else is all just hogwash.<!-/Quote-!>
No. No. No.
You have not read the Bible or you would realize the flawed logic in that statement.
"Christianity" is a religion created ABOUT Jesus Christ.
Not the message he himself preached.
And no its not love. Try again.
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Andreja Gligorijevic (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
07 Sep 2008 17:48Link
True, Christianity (the fusion of the old and new testaments) as taught is actually Saul's work (St.Paul) "distilled" through the ages.
The best description of science i've ever come across is:
"The ability, backed by fact, to shove your views down someone else's throat."
A little much, but the main idea is there. Where faith is based on belief, science (should) be based on knowledge.
Colonization of Mars:
Personally, I think it's (at the same time) the dumbest and greatest thought of our civilization. Why? Simple: What's the use of MAD if total annihilation is off the table? If an off-world colony is ever created, and becomes viable, what is to prevent idiots (pardon me, politicians) from going full nuclear? They will survive, it's the rest of humanity that wont.
As for the greatest, simple again: we need learn nothing new; do to Mars, what we
The best description of science i've ever come across is:
"The ability, backed by fact, to shove your views down someone else's throat."
A little much, but the main idea is there. Where faith is based on belief, science (should) be based on knowledge.
Colonization of Mars:
Personally, I think it's (at the same time) the dumbest and greatest thought of our civilization. Why? Simple: What's the use of MAD if total annihilation is off the table? If an off-world colony is ever created, and becomes viable, what is to prevent idiots (pardon me, politicians) from going full nuclear? They will survive, it's the rest of humanity that wont.
As for the greatest, simple again: we need learn nothing new; do to Mars, what we
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Michael Morrison (White Giant)
All worlds
07 Sep 2008 19:24Link
uumm, Sam Houston....UUMMM....Christianity...NONDENOMINATIONAL Christianity is not so much a religion, as it is just following God's instructions via Jesus Christ. Once again, your thinking in terms of the Catholic Church. Christianity, as such, is NOT an institution.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - The Gospel - is the what is THE MOST important 30 years in the entire history of man-kind. I will say this again...Everything Else is mostly B.S. And yes, I HAVE read the Bible. I have read 4 or 5 different versions of the Bible. The KJV, and NIV I have read a good 4 or 5 times each.
Now, here is proof, directly from the Bible itself, that 7 days are NOT literal seven days.
In 2 Peter 3: 8-9, it says thus:
"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is pat
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - The Gospel - is the what is THE MOST important 30 years in the entire history of man-kind. I will say this again...Everything Else is mostly B.S. And yes, I HAVE read the Bible. I have read 4 or 5 different versions of the Bible. The KJV, and NIV I have read a good 4 or 5 times each.
Now, here is proof, directly from the Bible itself, that 7 days are NOT literal seven days.
In 2 Peter 3: 8-9, it says thus:
"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is pat
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Sam Houston (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
07 Sep 2008 19:50Link
As for Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 look up the thread. You will find a post explaining the poor translation of the original Hebrew text into the King James version. And the common misconceptions it has caused.
As for the New Testament....
All "Christianity" is ABOUT Jesus.
Not what he taught his disciples to preach.
Not what they themselves proclaimed as his teachings.
What was Christs message?
You can find it easily...
Its the second most common phrase in the Bible after Lord. Listed 127 times.
Go. Read.
Open your mind. Its good for you.
As for the New Testament....
All "Christianity" is ABOUT Jesus.
Not what he taught his disciples to preach.
Not what they themselves proclaimed as his teachings.
What was Christs message?
You can find it easily...
Its the second most common phrase in the Bible after Lord. Listed 127 times.
Go. Read.
Open your mind. Its good for you.
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Michael Morrison (White Giant)
All worlds
07 Sep 2008 19:56Link
ZOMGWTFBBQ!!?!?
HOLY CRAP! This almost does not warrant an argument....Sorry, next!
HOLY CRAP! This almost does not warrant an argument....Sorry, next!
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FarmerBob (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
08 Sep 2008 07:00Link
Accept the advice of the Dalai Lama.
The worlds' religions need to embrace their similarities, not differences.
Smart guy.
The worlds' religions need to embrace their similarities, not differences.
Smart guy.
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Michael Morrison (White Giant)
All worlds
08 Sep 2008 20:50Link
That is not quite true Bob. I mean, that is a wise saying, but we shouldn't just embrace our similarities, but we should also celebrate our differences.
I mean, I am an Italian-American from Williamsport PA, which makes me different from the rest of the world. I am proud of that difference. That's what makes us who we are.
Now, with those differences, we have the right to different beliefs. My problem with this whole discussion is that every single time someone talks about "Christianity," they seem to be stereotyping all Christians into one large group that are all narrow-minded idiots, who are also all anti-science, going around telling everyone how they are going to hell if they do not reform.
MY points of view on my "religion" are very very simple, and seems to be constantly getting ignored for some reason. I have said MANY MANY times, over and over what my beliefs are, and jsut get this crap:
I mean, I am an Italian-American from Williamsport PA, which makes me different from the rest of the world. I am proud of that difference. That's what makes us who we are.
Now, with those differences, we have the right to different beliefs. My problem with this whole discussion is that every single time someone talks about "Christianity," they seem to be stereotyping all Christians into one large group that are all narrow-minded idiots, who are also all anti-science, going around telling everyone how they are going to hell if they do not reform.
MY points of view on my "religion" are very very simple, and seems to be constantly getting ignored for some reason. I have said MANY MANY times, over and over what my beliefs are, and jsut get this crap:
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Sam Houston (Kebir Blue)
All worlds
08 Sep 2008 21:14Link
I dont recall mentioning Catholics, Easter, Christmas or any of the other topics.
I asked what his message was.
Jesus taught us about the Kingdom of God.
It is mentioned 127 times in the New Testament alone.
The most wonderful message Humanity has ever recieved has been ignored.
You should read up on it.
It will blow your Non Denominational Christian mind.
I asked what his message was.
Jesus taught us about the Kingdom of God.
It is mentioned 127 times in the New Testament alone.
The most wonderful message Humanity has ever recieved has been ignored.
You should read up on it.
It will blow your Non Denominational Christian mind.
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Michael Morrison (White Giant)
All worlds
08 Sep 2008 23:28Link
Holy Crap!
The most wonderful message Humanity has ever recieved has been ignored.
You should read up on it.
It will blow your Non Denominational Christian mind.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (wish I could use an 6523737634 point font to write this!@!@!!!!!)
NON DENOMINATIONAL CHRISTIANITY IS THE ONLY CHRISTIANS TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO JESUS TEACHINGS!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF HERE!!!!!
""Christianity" is a religion created ABOUT Jesus Christ.
Not the message he himself preached.
And no its not love. Try again."
AS QUOTED STRAIGHT FROM YOU, YOURSELF. THIS IS A COMPLETELY ABSOLUTELY FALSE STATEMENT!!!! THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ABOUT NON-DENOMINATIONAL CHRISTIANITY AS OPPOSED TO DENOMINATIONS. I ONLY USED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS A REFFERENCE TO YOUR INCREDIBLY FALSE
The most wonderful message Humanity has ever recieved has been ignored.
You should read up on it.
It will blow your Non Denominational Christian mind.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (wish I could use an 6523737634 point font to write this!@!@!!!!!)
NON DENOMINATIONAL CHRISTIANITY IS THE ONLY CHRISTIANS TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO JESUS TEACHINGS!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF HERE!!!!!
""Christianity" is a religion created ABOUT Jesus Christ.
Not the message he himself preached.
And no its not love. Try again."
AS QUOTED STRAIGHT FROM YOU, YOURSELF. THIS IS A COMPLETELY ABSOLUTELY FALSE STATEMENT!!!! THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ABOUT NON-DENOMINATIONAL CHRISTIANITY AS OPPOSED TO DENOMINATIONS. I ONLY USED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS A REFFERENCE TO YOUR INCREDIBLY FALSE
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Sam Houston (Little Upsilon)
All worlds
09 Sep 2008 01:26Link
/me shakes head.
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Zetetic Elench dam Kahveh
All worlds
09 Sep 2008 14:43Link
To return to the discussion about abiogenesis (the creation of self-replicating life from non-replicating matter), I have just come across a very interesting article on the influence of viruses on the origin of life.
My biology is not really up to the level of fully digesting the article but it was certainly interesting. It's two years old, so there may be more recent data out there that I haven't yet come across. Also, when the article was written, it was when there were few scientific papers dealing with this aspect of abiogenesis. Bear this in mind when reading it as it means that the article is far from conclusive.
It also deals with an aspect of the evolution of life that is thought to have occurred AFTER self-replicating organic molecules had developed. It deals with the step from there to self-contained cells which protected the self-replicating molecules within
My biology is not really up to the level of fully digesting the article but it was certainly interesting. It's two years old, so there may be more recent data out there that I haven't yet come across. Also, when the article was written, it was when there were few scientific papers dealing with this aspect of abiogenesis. Bear this in mind when reading it as it means that the article is far from conclusive.
It also deals with an aspect of the evolution of life that is thought to have occurred AFTER self-replicating organic molecules had developed. It deals with the step from there to self-contained cells which protected the self-replicating molecules within