Country Owned Public Cash Distributions

I see the drop of cash.

Both cash distributions that are non existent for public corporations, and the purchasing of materials do not reduce the corporate profits.

Cash distributions in other types of corporations are not corporate cost like salaries. These cash payments reduce the assets of the company, like taxes do. They have nothing to do with profits/net profits.

The purchasing of materials does not even reduce the corporate assets.

There is nothing showing that the cash reduction is a cash distribution.
the only distribution of cash by a public corporations is the payment of dividends.
If it was a cash distribution, you would see a jump of cash in the country or enterprise that owns most of the shares.
The only mechanism we have to pay cash to the owners of a public corporation is dividends. There is no other way.

We explicitly programmed cash transfers to the owner, for state corporations and private corporations.
These corporations have an owner and cash can be moved, in or out.

we did not call them dividends because they go to one single owner.

There are more possible reasons for a large cash drop.
One is as I said before, the purchasing of raw materials.
Another is a change in tax percentages that can cause a back payment.
This can create a big difference between profit and net profit.

It can also happen because of a recalculation at the end of the year, concluding that not enough tax was paid.
Also by a sudden drop in sales during a single month due to lack of materials.

If you see any public corporation showing cash movements on its page, in or out, please let me know where you see it.
You will see that all these pages show cash movement fields as zero.

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Cash distributions in other types of corporations are not corporate cost like salaries. These cash payments reduce the assets of the company, like taxes do. They have nothing to do with profits/net profits.<!-/Quote-!>

This is wrong. While taxes are not paid on distributions, they do appear on the profit charts as I showed above.

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the only distribution of cash by a public corporations is the payment of dividends.<!-/Quote-!>

Okay, this might show up as a "dividend" but it's still the corporation being forced by the simulation engine to reduce how much money is on hand. The assets drop too, an equal amount.

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There are more possible reasons for a large cash drop.<!-/Quote-!>

None of those are the case.

Please Andy, can you just TEST this instead of arguing with me. I feel like that would save you some time. I assure you, it is broken. And surplus money distributions most definitely occur because the system forces them.

There is no code ever written for cash distributions in public corporations other than dividends.

Cash distributions have nothing to do with profits, as I said before.

I understand you see changes in profits, but how do you know that these changes have anything to do with dividends.
they do not.

If you want to understand large fluctuations in cash, you need to look at many other numbers on the same month.
these include raw materials, dividends, taxes and more.

you show a graph of profits and net profits and nothing more.

If you have an example that shows this again, please let me know, exactly where it is, and I will look at the numbers and tell you where the cash went to.

There is nothing in what you show, that deals with taxes, and back taxes as I explained and again:

dividends and cash distributions, in Simcountry and the real world, are done after the profit is computed.

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There is no code ever written for cash distributions in public corporations other than dividends.<!-/Quote-!>

Then explain this.
WG - Majorette Zinc - corp ID 6251022

This time we were on time to check the details.

The amount of 30B is dividend.
Most of it went to the enterprises itself because it is the owner of around 85% of the shares.
the rest went to four investment funds in different countries.
The amount was just less than 4 B.

The enterprise shows a dividend income from public corporations.
the amount is around 40 B each month.
Not all enterprises pay dividends each month.
only a very small number and the amount depends on the number of shares owned.

That month, the enterprise received 25.377.842.176 as we could see on the log.

Even now, you did not show enough data. the dividend payment was showing in the enterprise.

This of course explained the positive profit and the negative net profit.

The dividends do not influence the corporate profits, only the net profit which is profit, less dividends and less taxes.

Okay! Yes! I agree with everything you said.

This doesn't work if a country owns shares. This part here:

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That month, the enterprise received 25.377.842.176 as we could see on the log.<!-/Quote-!>

doesn't happen for a country. A country receives nothing for these special dividends. Also, I don't believe that amount is included in the "Income from Dividend from Public Corporations" line item. Maybe it shows up in "Cash Transfers"? I don't know as that line item has no history graph. The amount of dividends my enterprise receives is fairly stable and does not show the 25B$ blip we just saw. Here's the chart:

But the enterprise still receives the funds, I have verified that happens. Countries do not receive the funds.

There's no cash log for an enterprise, so I couldn't show that part.

Hesston Cattle Feed - corp ID 4398004
Did the same 30B$ dividend in Feb/Mar of 4697
See if you see the money there - it's primarily owned by the country.

Hesston Cattle Feed - corp ID 4398004

This corporation will make another payment soon (Nov 4700 or Dec 4700)
I recommend watching it.

Good for you.
Huge dividend payments.

Andy, it's broken for COUNTRIES. You looked at an enterprise.
Don't be an asshole now considering it's take 20+ posts from me and SOMEHOW YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND.

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I made the same observation. This bug only applies to country public owned, not enterprise public owned.<!-/Quote-!>

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Agreed. Also, I can verify that investment funds do receive disbursements. This bug seems to only impact country treasuries.<!-/Quote-!>

Literally in the first three posts.

What is so difficult about this. I'm tempted to just stop playing given that response. I can't believe how difficult this is.
I'm not the only person reporting this, lest you forget.

I showed you an enterprise owned because we couldn't stop arguing about what this stupid distribution is even CALLED. I didn't realize you would completely forget and block out the initial point of the post which is NOT ABOUT ENTERPRISE OWNED.

Hern,

You are here for several months and you find more errors than many experiences players in a very long time.

I am not saying that there are no errors.

There are errors in Simcountry and we are very very happy when someone finds one and we can correct it.

You show us some graphs from the corporation.
Corporations can have many more reasons to have their cash changed.

The most probable one is cash exchange with the country and in this case dividends to the owners. I have no idea who the share owners are in this case. The only graph showing dividends shows a dividend of >40 B

You do not show all the values of the country. not even all the values of the corporation.

experienced players did not find any error in the cash of corporations for years.
The previous discussion was about cash in public corporations in an enterprise and there was no error.
products not offered because of a rounding problem, again a player started language that was outrageous and completely exploded over it.

Now you are threatening to leave because of another detail which might be difficult to understand?

there is no error shown in what you are showing here.

If this was an error, and cash changes happen all the time, many experiences players would be here with you and all giving us the exact place where it happened so we can go and look for it.

this never happened.

so if you see this again, please give us all the data.

WORLD, COUNTRY, CORPORATION and we will have a look and explain to you what happened.

no graphs because they prove nothing.


Fully understanding corporate finance and country finance requires some experience, good looking and not jumping to conclusions.
It is not trivial but don't be quick to conclude that there is an error.

and believe me, we love errors because we can then correct them.

The outrage about the one ton of Plutonium that was not offered on the market resulted (in the last upgrade), in these values being printed with fractions.
Now it is easy to see that it was not 1 but a fraction >0.5
It was not an error but we improved the page anyway.

I wasn't talking about quitting because of this issue, I found this very rude

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Good for you.
Huge dividend payments.<!-/Quote-!>

It completely minimizes the work I've been doing to bug fix your game, and it's wrong, because I don't get the dividend. Because it's broken.


I can't speak to other people finding these issues, that's on them. Maybe it's a newer issue, I couldn't tell you. I tried simcountry over the years but never cared as much as now, so I didn't track these kinds of numbers.

This is a very specific circumstance and only noticeable if you pay close attention or if your country has many public corporations and your profit sharing/tax are low. You would lose all your money because the dividend disappears.

I also deliberately avoid country-owned public corporations because of this bug, so my resources are limited in showing you what is wrong.

I don't know how far back your logs go, I've been trying to give you corporations but it always seems to be too far in the past by the time you check.

Currently here's a list of country owned that have generated these large dividends. I only play on WG.
Medialis - Hesston Cattle Feed - corp 4398004 - Dec/Jan 4701 - 40B
Medialis - Peoria Military Services - corp 4398014 - Jan/Feb 4701 - 30B

Let me know if that is too old for you, I'll adjust some corporations specifically for this bug and tell you in the future (but seriously, why can't you just test this very quickly yourself by generating a large dividend on a test corporation?)

It is 14 months back.
too far to see all transactions in details.

if you have a new one, please let me know.

the way public corporations are processed in exactly the same for enterprise owned ones and country owned ones.

the only difference is in the list of share owners.

In enterprise owned public corporations, the largest (non fund) shareowner is an enterprise.

In country owned ones, the largest (non fund ) share owner is a country.

The enterprise distributes the dividend to its share owners.
the dividend per share is computed by the total dividend amount divided by the number of shares the corporation issued.
then computed for each share owner depending on their holdings.

Dividends are in fact paid when the public corporations reach a certain cash amount.

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the only difference is in the list of share owners.

In enterprise owned public corporations, the largest (non fund) shareowner is an enterprise.

In country owned ones, the largest (non fund ) share owner is a country.<!-/Quote-!>

Right, but for some reason countries never receive the money, while enterprises (and investment funds) do.

I'll have another one tomorrow, I think.

Hern maybe try going to the finance menu. Profit and loss page. Income from dividend should have the information your after.

Anihana, nothing shows up there from these payments.

Andy, WG - Medialis - Hesston Cattle Feed - 4398004 just happened in April 4703.

I have the data.
I will save it here to make sure it does not disappear and have an engineer look into it.

The corporations is 90% owned by the state and might be considered financially a state corporations.
In any case, the numbers are not transparent and it is difficult to quickly see what happens.

I will be out of the country for 12 days.
will be on line during that period and check the forum, but the session with an engineer will be when I am back.

We will however find out.